Episode Transcript
Don Mock 0:21
All right, episode 68. We’re back, Rob.
Rob Broadfoot 0:23
We are back.
Don Mock 0:24
I thought for today, we would chat about something that, it’s kind of weird to talk about maybe. It’s the lifeblood of every creative firm, agency, studio, freelancer. Hell, even non-agency related. The idea of new business. Where is it? Where is this new business?
Rob Broadfoot 0:43
This elusive new business?
Don Mock 0:45
Do we look for it under rocks?
Rob Broadfoot 0:46
Are we trained it?
Don Mock 0:47
Is it out in the fields? Does it drink from the lake at midnight on Tuesday? How do we do the new business rain dance? Where does it come from? How do we get clients? What’s our history? Maybe there’s some lessons learned for non-agency people out there about the acquisition of new customers. Where do they come from?
Rob Broadfoot 1:10
They come from a lot of different places. When you think about people both in the industry and outside of our industry, people think of advertising and they think of the idea of pitching. Pitching for business.
Don Mock 1:26
Yeah. We had mentioned that show previously. We have the Don Draper’s of the world, but then you had that other AMC show. The theatrical-
Rob Broadfoot 1:26
The pitch and the whole-
Don Mock 1:29
The pitch. Yeah, exactly.
Rob Broadfoot 1:36
We’ve made mention of it. People pitch business, companies pitch business for different reasons. Some are very pro-pitch, some are anti-pitch. We’ve certainly pitched along the way and had success doing that as well. For us, generally speaking, the concept of pitching has evolved a little bit, meaning it used to be, that’s the way you got business. Everybody pitched. Sometimes, in a pitch, you’ll get a pitch fee. But most of the time, you will not get a pitch fee.
Don Mock 2:11
Correct.
Rob Broadfoot 2:11
Which means you’ve got to throw everything you have at it for a couple of weeks or a month or however long they give you.
Don Mock 2:17
The consultant who runs the pitch generally gobbles up all the fees.
Rob Broadfoot 2:20
They’re the ones who make the money.
Don Mock 2:22
Yeah, exactly. Which makes sense. Hey, I’m a giant corporation. It’s no different than hiring Korn Ferry to run a search for executive level talent or whatever. You’d have a fee to find the agencies or the studios or whatever, that would service this account properly. Then Hey, call that list and thin it out.
Rob Broadfoot 2:41
I think that, again, it used to be pretty commonplace. Now, I think the attitude over the past decade or even longer has sort of evolved to this idea of, “Wait a minute. We’re working. We’re doing all this work for, dare I say for free,” right? It’s an investment. You can look at it that way. But maybe that’s not the best way to go about getting new business, maybe there’s a better way to do it. Again, I think it depends. If you get the blanket RFP in the mail that you know is going out to 10 different agencies, and it’s 80 pages long and they want to know everyone’s personal history and all that stuff.
Don Mock 3:23
Yeah, blood type, everything.
Rob Broadfoot 3:24
Yeah, it just feels invasive and unnecessary. But I also understand that large companies sometimes need they need that security.
Don Mock 3:35
There’s a perception of risk, if you don’t know who… which ties into maybe the our next thought, which is trust. At a certain extent, the relationships are formed based on trust. I know I’ve said in the past, like, hey, are our logos better than other firm’s logos? Are our ads better? Yes, I could argue why they are. But to a certain extent, a lot of our clients work with us, because there is a trust there that Hey, Don, and Rob, and team and everybody, they’re going to do a great job. They’re going to do it on time. They’re gonna do it on a budget. There’s a trust-based business, which, which leads to referrals, which I know is something that we’ve talked about in the past. Another avenue for new business is referrals. I didn’t mean to shift from pitching.
Rob Broadfoot 3:37
No, you’re good. But I think about trust. So that brings up a good point, which is, when you go into a traditional pitch scenario, you have two, maybe three meetings or presentations. Getting to Know You meetings, but that’s it. Then you get the account, and then you’re married.
Don Mock 4:39
Yeah, you’re married for at least a year.
Rob Broadfoot 4:41
It’s like a crazy night in Vegas. And you went to the wedding chapel and got married and you’re waking up and you’re like, “I guess we’re married now. I hope this works out.”
Don Mock 4:47
Exactly.
Rob Broadfoot 4:49
We do it a little bit differently, meaning-
Don Mock 4:51
Well, I’m interrupting you… A lot of those things don’t work out specifically because of that reason. It’s not that- I mentioned Don Draper- it’s not the Don Draper days anymore, where everyone stays put for 10 years. You know what I mean? Where your account team is the same account team, your creative teams, the client is the same client. No. It’s musical chairs out there for everybody. Everybody’s shifting around. So it is harder to form that solidified bond for a prolonged period of time, if you just do a couple dates, and then get married.
Rob Broadfoot 5:23
Also, it’s one thing to write down a company culture on a piece of paper. But that doesn’t really tell you what the company culture is like. You have to live with the people and work with the people.
Don Mock 5:33
Experience it.
Rob Broadfoot 5:33
You got to sort of experience it, to find out if it’s a good fit or not. We always say to clients, however they come through the door, “Hey, let’s let’s start with something small.” Let’s not… This idea of signing the piece of paper and becoming AOR overnight is a bit of a risky endeavor, I think. So we always say, “Hey, let’s start with one project. Let’s make sure that it works for all parties involved.” We got to be happy, they got to be happy. Everybody’s got to be happy. So that’s what we do. I think that, moving to referrals, it seems like an obvious one, but mining the network. We’re fortunate enough to have clients that stay with us for a long time. Which is great, and I think says a lot about us.
Don Mock 6:17
Yeah, we’re awesome.
Rob Broadfoot 6:18
We’re awesome.
Don Mock 6:18
Yeah, for sure.
Rob Broadfoot 6:19
Then what happens, of course, is they then refer others in the business, or they go elsewhere. They go to other companies and branch off. That’s just the way that the…
Don Mock 6:27
That might be the best case scenario.
Rob Broadfoot 6:29
It is the best case scenario. You meet somebody, get in with them, and then meet a lot of other people. Then people start to splinter off and go other places and then bring us in there. So referrals have been really good for us. This idea of organic growth.
Don Mock 6:43
Yeah, for sure. I think that that is what Google reviews, Yelp reviews, all that type of stuff. I think that our personal network and that referral system, that we’ve had over the last 20-25 years and whatnot, has been great for us. But the democratization of that, maybe to even strangers, is what’s really interesting about reviews. Now, I don’t know how you feel about reviews. For the most part, sometimes I feel like people just go to the internet to complain. If you went to Rate my Professor, or all these Glass Doors and things like that… people that are happy, never go to those places and write these glowing essays of all these things. It’s always negative reviews and bad things happening. But I think that, for those that are, “Hey, I need to find a plumber, I need to do this.” It’s interesting how search and utilizing what we’re talking about- trust- in terms of Google reviews, is a new way of how clients acquire business. How you go through. I mean, even Amazon, “Oh, product reviews!” from strangers, things like that. It’s an interesting democratization of what an extended network would be of all these strangers, yet “Oh, wow. They’ve got 5000 5-star reviews. I guess that’s got to be good.” That type of thing. It’s weird to think about that way.
Rob Broadfoot 8:07
It’s true. It’s a lot different if you’re reviewing a product versus a service. Like a toaster. I go to Amazon, and I see “Oh, this mug has been purchased 44,000 times and has a 5-star review. I’ll take it.” Because it’s not easy to game that system, if you wanted to try and game that system. I do think that going back even further, the idea of networking, in and of itself and referrals… thank goodness for the internet. Before that, it was just picking up the phone and calling people and doing that. Certainly LinkedIn and all the other tools out there.
Don Mock 8:45
Cold calling. That’s crazy. I mean, again, I feel like I keep interrupting here, but it’s still a thing. I mean, I get cold calls all the time. I know you do, too, in the office, from people wanting to sell their software or their service or things like that. That’s not really my jam, just to be totally honest.
Rob Broadfoot 9:03
No, it takes us it takes a special kind of person to be able to do that.
Don Mock 9:06
We worked with a guy though, who was a cold call master for years and years and years. Leo. Very, very successful at that. That’s an interesting avenue. I don’t know, is cold calling still a thing? I guess it is.
Rob Broadfoot 9:07
I’m sure it is. I’m sure it is. But yeah, that’s not really our jam. But I think also, you’ve got the network. Then you’ve also got this idea of non-organic, new business development, and the things that you can do and the tool sets that are out there now. SEO. Search. If we think about the internet, that’s where you go first to find things. So there’s a whole complex industry around SEO and how do I get to the top of the page? It is a constant battle to figure out how to do that.
Don Mock 9:55
Yeah. It’s interesting when we talk to clients about SEO or when we do their site for them and talk about ongoing, pushing the boulder up the hill repeatedly. Google keeps changing the game on the way it all works.
Rob Broadfoot 10:08
Like everyday.
Don Mock 10:08
Yeah, constantly. I feel like this is another podcast. There’s a great stair-stepped approach of how it’s it’s evolved. Google 1.0 was, “Hey, I need pizza.” So you Google pizza. So there’s Pizza Huts everywhere. Then we went localized where it’s “pizza Atlanta.” Then everybody got smarter, now I know my search here versus the search in Montana is different, because of our ISPs and our geolocation and things like that. But it always used to be, “Hey, I go to the internet and I ask a question and various search engines, Ask Jeeves, Google, Bing, whatever, give the answer that they think is the most relevant.” And they send you on your way. You ask a question, they give you a bunch of answers and a bunch of links, and you click on them and you go elsewhere. You go to other people’s websites and things like that. Now, we’re in this really interesting era, where I feel like Google is really more of a content thief, than they are a link provider. Because now you go, “Hey, I’ve got a scratch, I’ve got a red spot on my elbow.” You ask Google these crazy questions. They’ve got the little “people also ask.” They’re basically taking all your content off the site, throwing it onto their site. Sometimes you never even go to people’s sites anymore. You know what I mean? They’re just taking the content and keeping it for themselves, which I find really, really interesting. So I just went off on a little tangent here. But it is interesting, that search, three years ago, is totally different than what it is now.
Rob Broadfoot 11:40
Totally different.
Don Mock 11:41
To your point six months ago, it’s different than what it is now.
Rob Broadfoot 11:45
It used to be years ago, you built a website, and then you just said, “Okay, we’re done.” Then four years later, you went, “You know what, maybe we shouldn’t work on the site or refresh the site.” Then it moved to “No, no, no. Okay. You’ve got to build the site. It’s a living breathing organism.” We realize that now, and we have to keep tinkering with it and evolving it.
Don Mock 12:08
You want to be reindexed every couple of weeks, in terms of what Google gives you- domain authority and ranking, like “Oh, yeah, these guys are actually working on their little website over here.” It’s good, and you’re providing valuable content.
Rob Broadfoot 12:20
It behooves Google to serve up the appropriate content for you. For them to serve you the best answer, and send you to the right place, which is their site. Shocker!
Don Mock 12:35
It’s interesting. It’s fun to also explain, potentially, to clients, like “We don’t own Google.” There’s only so much we can do, and then we’re kind of at the mercy of how often they update things. How often they index things. We’ve got to play by their rules.
Rob Broadfoot 12:48
How do I get to the top of the page?
Don Mock 12:49
Yeah. A lot of money.
Rob Broadfoot 12:51
A lot of money. And a lot of work.
Don Mock 12:53
It used to be just invisible keywords everywhere.
Rob Broadfoot 12:56
Yeah, we’re gonna hide pages. Hidden content pages everywhere.
Don Mock 13:00
Shocker, newsflash. Now you have to pay for everything. All right. So we got referrals. We’re talking new business. I feel like I sent us on on a rabbit trail.
Rob Broadfoot 13:07
It’s all right.
Don Mock 13:08
We got new business, we got referrals, we’ve got that trusted network. What else did we talk about? We talked a little bit about cold calling, not so much. Talked about search. What else? Other thoughts? I’ve got a funny cold calling story I could share.
Rob Broadfoot 13:23
Go ahead, yeah.
Don Mock 13:23
About something that we’ve done. So we worked with- and we still do- we work with a great packaged foods provider. We did a whole brand for them and everything and they ended up selling that brand off. Sad day. “Oh my God, what? You guys are set. No, we did all this stuff. It’s in grocery stores, this is awesome. We love all this stuff. Hey, um, who did you sell that to?” Why did they buy it? Okay, let’s just chitty chat. Oh, here’s a (keyboard typing noise). To your point about the internet, oh, here’s the National Sales Director.
Rob Broadfoot 13:23
And their phone number.
Don Mock 13:24
That kind of thing. Drop a note. Maybe this is a cold call in a weird Internet email version. “Hey, national sales guy. We’re the folks that did all that stuff. It’s come to my attention that you read recently purchased this from so-and-so.” It helps to know people. Obviously, name drop and things like that. That email somehow bounced its way around to the new acquirer and then ended up setting up a call with them. I had to bird dog this thing for a while. This was a couple months. Then “Hey, yeah, let’s hop in the car, run up, do a presentation.” Coincidentally, it actually worked out great that they are here in the state of Georgia. So went, did an introduction. This is amazing. Now boom! New client based on that. It’s a new client, but it’s all the work that we had already done right for multiple years on this stuff. They’re now doing new things with it, and new exciting stuff. It’s been really, really fun to breathe new life into something that we’ve been nurturing for a couple years and have all that intellectual know-how about why the decisions were made the way they were. Then “Hey, what is your version or vision? What’s your vision of the brand? What are you guys going to do with it?” How do we then start to steer the ship that way? Talk about, “Hey, we want to make changes, but you don’t want shopper confusion.” Because it is a packaged goods product. How much do we change? How much do we keep the same? That type of thing. Coincidentally I actually just sent off the mechanical files today for one of the new products. That should be hitting stores in six to eight weeks, something like that. Hopefully. Crazy things like that happen out there, too.
That makes me think of two points. Maybe these are tips. One is the idea of being persistent and making sure that you remember to call. Here’s what I mean by that. We’re not top of mind- believe it or not- to all of our clients all the time. We think we are. A lot of times, too-
But Rob, we’re the fun meeting of the day-
Rob Broadfoot 16:04
I was just gonna say-
Don Mock 16:05
Oops, sorry.
Rob Broadfoot 16:06
We say to clients, “Hey, it’s time for the most fun part of your day, the most fun meeting of the day. We get to look at creative and talk about creative.” Forgetting the fact that, they’re stuck in like budget land, doing all of these 25,000 other things that they’ve got to do. We’re only one of those things. I think it’s easy to lose sight of that sometimes. So remember to pick up the call or pick up the phone. Remember to make the call and outreach. Then also, we’ve run into this before… we have this idea that our clients know exactly everything that we do. For every single client that we have. You forget about that sometimes. A lot of times you’ll get the, “Oh, I didn’t know you guys did that.” For us, it’s like, “What do you mean, you didn’t know that? It’s on our website.”
Don Mock 16:06
It’s also, that’s all we do for this other client of ours.
Rob Broadfoot 16:14
Exactly. I think it’s just making sure that, with not only the new clients, but with old clients, long term clients, it’s reminding them, “Hey, we’re here, we can help. Let us help you.”
Don Mock 17:04
I always wonder, what that fine line of persistence versus annoying is. With this example that I just sent was, fire off an email. You get an email back a few days later. Hey, you don’t hear from somebody one week. Maybe once a week, I don’t know. I think my tact on this one was maybe once a week fire off an email. “Hey, checking in making sure…” Because you don’t really know these people yet. You’re fishing. But it ended up working out. And everyone’s busy.
Rob Broadfoot 17:36
That’s not a cold call. That’s like a lukewarm call. I mean, that’s not the the drip campaign.
Don Mock 17:44
Yeah, there is relevance there.
Rob Broadfoot 17:45
There’s relevance there. There’s experience. There’s a reason for that email. Again, I think that’s important, too. When you’re crafting the email. The drip campaigns- everybody’s tired of this, everybody’s tired of the cold emails. You get five of them in a row. It’s “I still haven’t heard from you.”
Don Mock 18:02
Bumping this to the top of your inbox.
Rob Broadfoot 18:03
Why don’t I bump this up? Yeah.
Don Mock 18:06
By the way, that email is like, I don’t know, 80 lines long. It’s like a dissertation. I can’t read all this. This is way too much information.
Rob Broadfoot 18:15
I think in certain instances for certain businesses, and industries, that works. A more personalized approach, a reason for the email.
Don Mock 18:28
We did a messenger campaign on LinkedIn years ago. We had some great success with that pre-Microsoft purchase. So that is a little bit cold, a little bit warm, because you’re in the network, that type of thing. But I still believe in the power of LinkedIn when used properly.
Rob Broadfoot 18:46
When used properly, I do as well.
Don Mock 18:48
It has gotten a little bit more of-
Rob Broadfoot 18:52
There’s more junk.
Don Mock 18:53
Yeah, I was gonna say more social non-relevance, you know what I mean? It’s a lot of birthdays and anniversaries and less businessey stuff, I guess has permeated in there, which I find interesting.
Rob Broadfoot 19:07
I would agree, but it’s still it’s still a good tool. Still a great place to mine, I think.
Don Mock 19:12
Yeah, new business. It’s an interesting thing. It’s… agency life, we always joke about the peak and valley. You’re so busy doing the work, you don’t have time to go out and find the work. But I think it is important to try to smooth those peaks and valleys out to some rolling hills, and try to make sure you’ve got a meeting or two every week. A call or this or that. I think our strategy potentially… I don’t want to speak for us here. So jump in. But there’s no silver bullet for all that. it’s a little bit of everything.
Rob Broadfoot 19:42
A little bit of everything.
Don Mock 19:43
Don’t put all your eggs into any one specific basket.
Rob Broadfoot 19:45
I would fish in a lot of different ponds.
Don Mock 19:48
Yeah, with a lot of different lures.
Rob Broadfoot 19:49
A lot of different lures.
Don Mock 19:50
Yeah, exactly. But also, fish to your strengths. Making sure that you know who you’re going after, and if that’s an appropriate contact. Or if it’s a company that can actually utilize the service that you provide.
Rob Broadfoot 20:07
It is a constant. You got to do it. Constant churn, you got to do it.
Don Mock 20:11
Well, we’re only as good as our last-
Rob Broadfoot 20:13
It’s really rewarding. It’s also it’s also cool because on a day to day basis, you never know what’s gonna happen.
Don Mock 20:22
It does make it a little interesting.
Rob Broadfoot 20:23
What new business is going to come in, or opportunities. Keeps us on our toes.
Don Mock 20:28
My son always says, every day my son says, “Hey, what do you have going on today?” It’s funny, I list out what I think I have going on. I know I have to do 1-2-3. This is when I’m taking them to school. Then at the end of the day, “Hey, how was work today, Dad, what happened?” And I’m like, “Oh, well, actually, four, five, and six happened. That wasn’t even on the radar.”
Rob Broadfoot 20:51
I haven’t gotten to one, two and three yet.
Don Mock 20:53
Oh, one, two and three, I did- But things pop up. It’s crazy. It’s fun, though. That keeps it interesting.
Rob Broadfoot 21:00
New biz.
Don Mock 21:01
Yeah, new biz. All right. I think that’s enough for today. Where can people find us, Mr. Rob?
Rob Broadfoot 21:08
If you’re interested in new business… You can find us online at mocktheagency.com, of course. And on the socials @mocktheagency.
Don Mock 21:17
Yeah. Or if you want to be our new business director.
Rob Broadfoot 21:19
If you want to be our director of business development.
Don Mock 21:21
Yeah. Send your resume on in.
Rob Broadfoot 21:23
Send your resume in.
Don Mock 21:24
Funny. All right. Thanks, everybody.
Rob Broadfoot 21:26
Okay, bye.
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