Episode Transcript
Rob Broadfoot 0:20
Alright, welcome back, legions of fans. This is podcast 14, and we thought today that we would talk a little bit about working in the industry and getting a job in the industry. Maybe some of this will be helpful to those of you who may be in school looking for jobs.
Don Mock 0:40
Sure.
Rob Broadfoot 0:40
And kind of a general discussion around what you can expect and how it works and what we look for. We’ll touch on a lot of those things, here in the next little bit. So, working in the industry and coming out of school. Let’s start with any quick thoughts on, when you were in school, and what was one of the single most eye opening lessons that you learned that was different from school and an actual working, paying job in the industry?
This one’s easy for me. We may have touched on it a little bit before, but that creativity is the light switch, right? I think, the speed aspect. We’ve joked about moving at the speed of business in the past, that is definitely the largest culture shock for anybody that we hire. Not that we hire a lot of people straight out of school. But, if we get juniors in the office, or even interns that we’ve had over the summer. Just the sheer speed of how quick the industry works.
Right.
Don Mock 1:39
And needs to. I think that when you’re in school, you have the luxury of academia, and you’ve got 10 weeks to work on something. And here, we just had a call literally this morning, and it was, we need all the ideas on you know, a day and a half later.
Rob Broadfoot 1:45
It’s a big project.
Don Mock 1:54
So, it’s okay. Well, you have to juggle and manage accordingly, right? So, I think that you could probably, maybe there’s a lesson learned in design education on just doing more, dare I say, pop quizzes?
Rob Broadfoot 2:11
Yeah.
Don Mock 2:11
More in class assignments, where you got to have things done by the end of the day?
Rob Broadfoot 2:15
I agree, yeah.
Don Mock 2:17
Years ago, I did a fun little exercise with Stefan Sagmeister, the famous graphic designer, and it’s a one day workshop. We did it just for fun, and it’s like, you gotta get everything done today. It’s just a one day thing. Right? So, I think more of that probably would have been helpful for me. How about for you, any thoughts?
Rob Broadfoot 2:34
I would echo that one as well. Certainly. When you’re in school, you have the luxury of nights and weekends and things, and weeks to do projects. So, I think for sure, that too. But, I also think, and maybe it’s funny coming from a writer’s point of view, but the production standpoint of things.
Don Mock 2:52
That’s a hot button issue for me.
Rob Broadfoot 2:53
I know it is, you’re very good at production, very skilled at production. I think that that’s one thing that’s lacking in schools a little bit, is truly understanding production.
Don Mock 3:04
Sure.
Rob Broadfoot 3:04
Production means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. But, everything from truly, and we’ve talked about color before, but truly understanding color theory.
Don Mock 3:12
Sure.
Rob Broadfoot 3:12
And how production works.
Don Mock 3:14
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 3:14
I think more press checks in school.
Don Mock 3:32
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 3:17
I think more understanding of the actual process and how it works. A lot of times, it’s not just printing or things like that, but it’s production as a general concept, and what’s doable and what’s not.
Don Mock 3:32
For sure.
Rob Broadfoot 3:32
In other words, if you come out of school and present an idea that’s got, it’s Batman, is actually wearing Superman’s cape.
Don Mock 3:42
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 3:40
And he’s jumping over a Volvo.
Don Mock 3:43
Well, there’s multiple.
Rob Broadfoot 3:44
Yeah, multiple issues, problems there.
Don Mock 3:46
Yeah. It’s kind of like, there’s three phases of any project that we do here, or that other studios do. There’s the concept and ideation development, there’s the design creation component as the second phase. Then there’s, you have to make it real, right? Whether it’s a printed element to your point, or whether there’s a digital aspect, building a website, or whatever the case may be. You have to understand the different ramifications of what it takes to make something actually successful and real. How is this being printed, if it’s a package design? What substrate is going on? What’s the line screen? How many inkwells are there? Do we need to coat it? The list goes on and on and on. Printing is that, we’ll pick on printing because it’s the easiest one because it’s clearly the most technical, right? But, there’s an art, printing is not a science, it is an art form in and of itself, in terms of making that package dream a reality. So, production is definitely something that I mean, all of us learn by doing.
Rob Broadfoot 4:51
Of course.
Don Mock 4:51
For sure. But, that is definitely something that anybody that is interested in a career in this field, if you’ve got strong productions skills and you walk in the door day one, and you got your RGB versus CMYK, and all of the different things right? You immediately have a leg up on everybody else.
Rob Broadfoot 5:11
Yeah, agreed.
Don Mock 5:12
Not the sexiest, but dare I say, almost the most important part of the job.
Rob Broadfoot 5:16
Yeah, and it’s a fine line, because you don’t want to inhibit anyone’s creativity by putting..
Don Mock 5:24
We don’t want to be the wet blanket.
Rob Broadfoot 5:27
Too many parameters on. But, I think a general awareness of production.
Don Mock 5:33
Well, we’ve talked about how both of us have taught in the past? There’s no budgets when you’re developing ideas.
Rob Broadfoot 5:40
Right.
Don Mock 5:40
Don’t think about it. But, there is a big differentiator of, you need to bring ideas that are feasible and rational and can be utilized by your creative director, by your clients. You can’t come up with, why bother spending your time developing a double page spread Volvo ad of Batman wtih Superman’s cape. I mean, it’s a nonstarter right from the get-go.
Rob Broadfoot 6:05
Right.
Don Mock 6:05
So, it’s like, you need to be able to ideate within the correct sandbox, so you’re not wasting everybody’s time.
Rob Broadfoot 6:13
Alright so, let’s shift gears a little bit. I’ll ask you the question.
Don Mock 6:17
Hit me.
Rob Broadfoot 6:17
When you are interviewing candidates to come work here. What do you, any dos, or don’ts, or things you like, or pet peeves, or anything that you might throw out there as advice to people?
Don Mock 6:32
Yeah, I think this answer would be definitely different, maybe fifteen or twenty years ago, versus what it is now. So, I’ve definitely evolved in regards to the candidates and interviewing people. I think that our studio isn’t gigantic. There aren’t hundreds and hundreds of people here. So, they’re not going to be, just, employee number 246, over there in the corner.
Rob Broadfoot 6:54
Or employee number 46?
So I think, obviously, looking for skill set. But, I think that attitude, and vibe, and personal skills, for me are extremely important. I know that doesn’t really answer a design question. But, you got to be able to fit in with everybody, right? So, there’s definitely a vibe check. Then I think I’m being authentic and real about where you are in your design. We can coach up design.
Right.
Don Mock 7:23
We can coach up skill sets and things like that, right? So, we’ve had some very fortunate success over the years with a lot of people that have come in, have stayed for multiple years here. I love teaching. I know you do too, and coaching everybody up and giving everybody the opportunity to work on everything, here. So, I think, it’s kind of a long winded rambling answer. But, don’t try to be something you’re not. I mean, if you’re comfortable in your own skin and here’s where I’m at in my design career, and maybe there’s an opportunity for that or not, I don’t know. What are your thoughts on the matter?
Rob Broadfoot 7:58
I think part of it depends on the type of job that you’re looking for, and the type of place that you want to work. There are certain things that are universal truths. We’ll get to that in a minute. But, if you want to be at the most creative, award winning shop in the land, then obviously your portfolio needs to reflect that.
Don Mock 8:18
Sure. Sure.
Rob Broadfoot 8:19
And that’s more of a job where you can, I would say expect to be working all night and doing all the things because you’re battling against, your jockeying for position within the agency.
Don Mock 8:28
For sure.
Rob Broadfoot 8:29
I think, speaking for us. I think you’re right in that, personality, and motivation play a big role.
Don Mock 8:42
I’m glossing over the obvious. So, if you have to check the box that you know how to do certain technical skills.
Rob Broadfoot 8:47
Correct. Correct. You have to know how to write. You have to know how to operate Photoshop, if you’re a designer or illustrator, whatever it is. So yeah, you’ve got to have those things. But, there are a lot of talented folks out there that check those boxes. So, I think then, for us, it’s really about somebody who can come in and just sort of take the ball and run with it.
Don Mock 9:10
Yeah. Well, let me go back to one thing you asked me earlier. Let me back up a little bit about the advice and things, knowing when you’re really young, you’re just still hard learning how to do everything. Then all of a sudden, you get to the end, and it’s portfolio class, and you got to create a portfolio to go sell your skills, right? I think that it’s important to try to tailor your skills and your showcase, your portfolio for the type of job that you want. Otherwise, you’re kind of trying to be everything for everybody. So, to your point.
Rob Broadfoot 9:38
Right.
Don Mock 9:38
If you want to work at a big shop. Get work that would be reflective of a large, conglomerate agency. If you want to work at a smaller shop or a design studio or something, tailor your portfolio to the types of projects, that that type of company would actually do. So, for example, if somebody came in here and all they had were national Toyota commercials in their book, we’d be like, that’s a great portfolio. We don’t do that stuff here. That’s not what we do right now. Toyota, if you’re listening will absolutely do that for you. But as of right now, we’re not doing that. So, I think that’s maybe a little kernel or nugget of advice of don’t try to be everything to everybody. Try to determine what you want to do and then attack that corner of the world, and showcase your skills that way.
Rob Broadfoot 10:28
I think also too, it used to be, you’ve sort of focused on a design, let’s say, okay, Illustrator, and Photoshop and InDesign, and those things, and you did that. I think now, though, just the way that media is in the landscape of everything is.
Don Mock 10:46
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 10:46
It’s great to have multiple skill sets.
Don Mock 10:48
Oh, yeah, for sure.
Rob Broadfoot 10:49
So, if you happen to be a writer, but you know what, you also have an interest in photography or video or something?
Don Mock 10:57
Sure.
Rob Broadfoot 10:58
Go for it.
Don Mock 10:58
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 10:58
Learn that, because anybody coming in, and even if you just have a little bit of experience there, that you just took upon yourself to try and figure out? That’s a great thing.
Don Mock 11:08
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 11:08
Because that tells us that, wow, this person is interested in learning multiple things. We can find different things..
Don Mock 11:14
Absolutely.
Rob Broadfoot 11:15
For them to sort of plug in and try and hone their skills.
Don Mock 11:17
Yeah, for sure.
Rob Broadfoot 11:18
So, I think, start coding. Mess around in WordPress. Whatever it is, if there’s multiple skill sets. That’s always going to be a bonus.
Don Mock 11:30
Well, on a previous podcast, we talked about how to break through the clutter, from a brand perspective. It does kind of apply to young creatives, or people already working in the creative industry, trying to find their way. In terms of how do you differentiate yourself from everybody else?
Rob Broadfoot 11:47
Also, spellcheck your resume.
Don Mock 11:50
Yeah, for sure. What’s your pet peeve on resumes, and things? I mean, I’m not gonna front. It’s a beating, sometimes, when we have to hire people. There’s deep breathing going on.
Rob Broadfoot 12:01
Yeah.
Don Mock 12:02
And there’s like, oh, gotta block and tackle.
Rob Broadfoot 12:04
My pet peeve is a five page resume.
Don Mock 12:08
Yeah, it’s ridiculous.
Rob Broadfoot 12:09
Be succinct. Let me understand where you came from. What you did.
Don Mock 12:14
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 12:14
Unlike a lot of industries, and I’ll speak for myself here. But you know, in this industry, did you go to school? Where did you go to school? What’s your pedigree? I don’t care about those things. Did you graduate college? Did you not? I don’t really care.
Don Mock 12:31
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 12:31
You have a big old tattoo on your face, I don’t really care. You’re probably not going to present to a client, right away. But, I don’t really care.
Don Mock 12:40
It’s worse for Post Malone.
Rob Broadfoot 12:42
Keep your resumes succinct and let’s get to the work.
Don Mock 12:46
You know what my pet peeve of resumes are?
Rob Broadfoot 12:50
Well, the CEO?
Don Mock 12:52
Yes.
Rob Broadfoot 12:52
Yeah, you tell that.
Don Mock 12:53
And again, this is just a personal preference. But, you’re not the CEO of your own independent design studio, or whatever the case may be, right? For whatever reason, that is just a pet peeve of mine. It’s just, there’s no one else in the company, and the company doesn’t make any money, anyway. That’s not a real company. So, that’s always, I find I chuckle when we see those things come through. But I’m with you. I don’t know that the school necessarily matters all the time, right? Even though I went to SCAD, many, many moons ago. I mean, I do have an affinity for SCAD grads, and I do have professors over there and things like that. But, at the end of the day, it’s the skills that pay the bills.
Rob Broadfoot 13:32
That’s right.
Don Mock 13:33
It’s can you do it?
Rob Broadfoot 13:35
Do you enjoy doing it, and are we going to enjoy working with you on the project?
Don Mock 13:38
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Trustworthiness. We’ve got to be able to dump and run. Give you the work and let you work on it. Then check back in and make sure you’ve done it accordingly.
Rob Broadfoot 13:48
Yeah, we’ve got a tea time to get to.
Don Mock 13:50
I think another podcast would be, just absolute insanity of interviewing people and all the crazy stories that we could share, but we should probably save that for a different thought.
Rob Broadfoot 14:00
We have had some interesting ones.
Don Mock 14:02
Yeah, for sure. For sure.
Rob Broadfoot 14:03
We’ll save that for another time.
Don Mock 14:04
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 14:05
Well, hopefully there were a couple of little nuggets in here that you can take with you, wherever you land.
Don Mock 14:10
Just be awesome.
Rob Broadfoot 14:11
Be awesome. Yeah, be awesome. And if you ever want a job here, or are interested, send over your resume.
Don Mock 14:16
Yeah drop us an email.
Rob Broadfoot 14:17
Be proactive. That’s also another good one. Be proactive.
Don Mock 14:20
It’s nice to be loved.
Rob Broadfoot 14:20
Reach out to the places you want to go.
Don Mock 14:22
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 14:23
And go there.
Don Mock 14:23
Absolutely.
Rob Broadfoot 14:24
Alright. Thanks, everybody. We’ll sign off per usual. You can find us on the interwebs at mocktheagency.com, or on the socials @mocktheagency. You know the drill, give us feedback. Let us know how we’re doing.
Don Mock 14:37
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 14:38
Give us ideas to talk about. We’ll see if we can do it.
Don Mock 14:40
Yeah, we’ll chat with you next time. Thanks.
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