Episode Transcript
Don Mock 0:19
Are you rocking out to those tunes there? What’s happening?
Zoe Mock 0:21
I was having a full blown concert.
Don Mock 0:22
I know, you were doing, not only the guitar, but the air drums as well.
Zoe Mock 0:25
I was head thrashing, too.
Don Mock 0:27
Head thrashing?
Zoe Mock 0:28
Isn’t that-?
Don Mock 0:29
Head banging. It’s head banging.
Zoe Mock 0:31
Okay.
Don Mock 0:31
I was talking to your sister about head banging actually. She keeps doing this thing with her hair…
Zoe Mock 0:36
Oh, her hair is so long. Hi, B. Yours is so long, and you’re just flipping it, like Justin Beiber.
Don Mock 0:41
I was like, Dude, you’re a master. I was like, we gotta get you front row at the next Anthrax concert.
Zoe Mock 0:46
I almost wore my Anthrax here today.
Don Mock 0:48
You should, you should have. Alright everybody, we’re back. Episode 58. As you can tell, my daughter Zoey is here in lieu of Rob.
Zoe Mock 0:55
Hello.
Don Mock 0:55
Zoe popped over for lunch. You’re in the middle of what? Finals? Finals week?
Zoe Mock 0:59
Oh, yes.
Don Mock 0:59
Is finals one week, two weeks. What is it? Two weeks of finals?
Zoe Mock 1:02
Today’s reading day, and then I have finals Thursday, Friday, and all of next week. So seven days-ish.
Don Mock 1:09
So we ran next door and grabbed some sushi, a little decompression. A little fatherly advice.
Zoe Mock 1:14
Some Hot Goss time.
Don Mock 1:16
Yeah, a little bit. We ran and said, “Hey, let’s jump on the pod.” My buddy, Brian said that he enjoyed listening to you on the pod. So I was like, hey, pop on back. and let’s do it. Let’s do a pod.
Zoe Mock 1:26
Very big compliments from from people I’ve heard about for a long time.
Don Mock 1:29
Really?
Zoe Mock 1:29
Hmmhmm. Yeah.
Don Mock 1:30
That’s pretty exciting. All right, cool. All right. So what’re we going to talk about here? What I wanted to ask you, I guess was… we did a couple pods before. One about nature versus nurture. And one about, I think, just interdisciplinary design.
Zoe Mock 1:47
Yeah.
Don Mock 1:48
Took me a minute to remember that. So I thought, Hey, you are wrapping up your second year, which is pretty exciting.
Zoe Mock 1:53
Thank you.
Don Mock 1:55
What I want to kind of ask, I guess, in a non-eloquent way, is… what has changed for you in the world of design? Has your opinion of design changed? Has your thought process changed? What you thought going into this bad boy… has it changed now that you’re literally near the end… and you’re nodding your head. So you’re about to say something. You’re about to say Yes.
Zoe Mock 2:18
Yeah.
Don Mock 2:18
All right.
Zoe Mock 2:19
I think it’s all changed.
Don Mock 2:20
It’s all- Everything’s changed.
Zoe Mock 2:22
How far back do you want to go? Because it all-
Don Mock 2:24
What’s up is down?
Zoe Mock 2:25
Exactly. Well, all of design growing up with you guys is- and we’ve talked about this- is 2D, is paper, is packaging.
Don Mock 2:31
Yeah.
Zoe Mock 2:32
The magic of all-
Don Mock 2:33
Yeah, three dimensional.
Zoe Mock 2:33
…design and that whole kind of world of the Massimos and the very awesome people that I grew up with.
Don Mock 2:41
Yeah, having pancakes with Massimo. It’s a famous story. We’re never gonna let that one, that’s going to go on forever.
Zoe Mock 2:47
That was the peak of my life, and I had no idea.
Don Mock 2:49
Yeah. How old were you? Six? Egith?
Zoe Mock 2:52
Eight. But I think a lot of is changed just with you guys. Then trying to figure out what I wanted to do. Once I figured out what I wanted to do, that has started to change.
Don Mock 3:02
Okay, let’s start with what you thought it was. Then we’ll evolve into what you think of it now.
Zoe Mock 3:06
I think.
Don Mock 3:07
Go.
Zoe Mock 3:07
I’m doing industrial design. You explain this whenever you talk to people about ideas. We both thought I would be going to school and doing the chairs and tables and these things. Only that, that’s what ideas.
Don Mock 3:21
Yeah, like product design.
Zoe Mock 3:22
Yeah. Traditional. Yeah.
Don Mock 3:24
Why does the coffeemaker work the way the coffeemaker works?
Zoe Mock 3:26
You’re gonna make a four times joke of, why does a fork have four and not three things.
Don Mock 3:31
I am nothing if not predictable. Which is comfortable for people.
Zoe Mock 3:34
Dare I say.
Don Mock 3:35
Dare I say, I’m very predictable.
Zoe Mock 3:37
But I get to school and like, This is what we’re gonna do.
Don Mock 3:41
Yeah.
Zoe Mock 3:41
Immediately, it’s like, why are upper level studios doing apps? Why am I going to be expected to code next year? As a freshman.
Don Mock 3:49
You’re wondering what in the world’s going on?
Zoe Mock 3:50
I am going to a tech school?
Don Mock 3:52
But we were working on products at first, like shape, and for you a spatula. You did all sorts of stuff, right.
Zoe Mock 3:57
Rectilinear and curvilinear.
Don Mock 3:59
Okay, whoa.
Zoe Mock 3:59
Product theories and just kind of learning what design is, in the traditional products sense world. I mean, we were joking about the digital age last time, but because of the digital age.
Don Mock 4:10
Those darn computers.
Zoe Mock 4:10
Now AI. How much that has changed what you can apply those traditional concepts to. I think that is what has offered more choice now, in terms of like, I don’t need to just go into a traditional product design studio. I mean, my studio next year will be UI UX and Figma. and more coding than I ever thought I would do
Don Mock 4:12
Really?
Zoe Mock 4:13
Hmmhmm.
How does that make you feel?
I’m very excited.
Don Mock 4:18
Okay, good.
Zoe Mock 4:18
Yeah.
Don Mock 4:18
So what does this mean? I guess, you’re saying, Hey, I came in thinking it was going to be more product design. That may be an influence from us, your parents, and just our understanding of what industrial design was 20 years ago. Now your opinion your view has changed in that it’s so much more than just product design?
Zoe Mock 4:56
Yeah. I think that’s changed because of the way that the world has changed. I don’t necessarily think I’m being forced into any one part of the discipline. But whether I end up liking all of the coding or not, or all of this. Being able to have the skills to know what I’m talking about, and have a handle on everything coming out of school. That’s what makes everything helpful.
Don Mock 5:18
Yeah. Rob and I actually just did a pod. You’re saying whether you like it or not. We just did a pod talking about, sometimes having to work on things that maybe you don’t necessarily agree with. Or where you can foresee problems down the road, and still having to do your best. I mean, you got to give it your all. That’s what people are paying you for. Your professional opinion of why this matters, things like that. So what else? Okay, so your viewpoint has changed.
Zoe Mock 5:44
I’ve opened my hor. I mean, the audio medium is not doing us justice. We’re doing big hand motions, that my horizons have been expanded.
Don Mock 5:54
Okay. Change number one is changing horizons, expanded horizons. Alright, what’s number two? What else do you think?
Zoe Mock 5:59
Changing what I think I can do.
Don Mock 6:01
Really?
Zoe Mock 6:02
Yeah, I think confidence levels going up.
Don Mock 6:05
Okay. I’m gonna call that a good thing. That’s awesome.
Zoe Mock 6:08
Kind of, Can we curse on this?
Don Mock 6:10
Yeah.
Zoe Mock 6:10
The holy shit moment that I did this.
Don Mock 6:12
Yeah.
Zoe Mock 6:14
Just having that, Oh, my God, people are validating what I’m doing. I did ir right. I’m using all these concepts properly, I’m adding my own flair into it. We were talking about at lunch… going through the phases of everything. Like oh, a phase one, you’re getting all of that. I’m kind of in the next phase of applying it. I’ll keep applying it and constant feedback, the art of being chewed out.
Don Mock 6:36
Yeah, well, now your brother can’t listen to this. There’s gonna be an Explicit label. He hasn’t reached that threshold of Spotify. But you can swear as much as you want. Your sister will hear it, but your brother won’t.
Zoe Mock 6:51
They’re in the middle of middle school. When I was in the middle of middle school, I think-
Don Mock 6:56
Is that when the wheels fell off?
Zoe Mock 6:57
The wheels completely fell off and it was just the filter for home. So I have no regret for that.
Don Mock 7:01
Pretty sure that you leave that. You leave that loving, nurturing embrace of elementary school.
Zoe Mock 7:08
And you just get kicked in the butt.
Don Mock 7:12
Thrown into the world of middle school, where it’s-
Zoe Mock 7:15
Stink bombs and-
Don Mock 7:17
All sorts of bad things.
Zoe Mock 7:17
Just absolutely horrible. Public middle school for that record.
Don Mock 7:22
You know what? I went to public middle school, many, many moons ago as well. It’s was just as bad back then.
Zoe Mock 7:27
We were talking about it. Everyone has the right to go to middle school.
Don Mock 7:31
Well, you can’t you can’t kick people out of middle school, unless they do something bad.
Zoe Mock 7:35
Yeah, there’s no limit to how much you can do.
Don Mock 7:38
Okay, so expanded Horizons has changed. The second thing is-
Zoe Mock 7:42
I’d say confidence.
Don Mock 7:43
Confidence level, which I think is good. I think that, that can transcend design just in general.
Zoe Mock 7:48
Just knowing what you’re doing, being able to handle everything, to an extent.
Don Mock 7:52
Being more confident. Yeah, for sure. Alright, what else? What other opinions have changed about design?
Zoe Mock 7:57
I love it a lot. I love it more than I ever thought I would.
Don Mock 8:02
That’s cool. That’s encouraging.
Zoe Mock 8:06
You and mom put a very big emphasis, a big stamp on, you can go do whatever you want to do, but you’re going to be good at it. You’re going to try your hardest. If I’m not the nerdiest design person ever- I’m wearing a furniture t shirt right now. If I’m not completely putting my entire soul into it, and then what’s the point?
Don Mock 8:26
Yeah.
Zoe Mock 8:27
I should love what I’m doing, for everything. I know people that are in school, just to kind of get through it. Just to go into the cycle of making money, and that’s completely fine.
Don Mock 8:36
Sure.
Zoe Mock 8:37
I mean, at Tech, I feel like I’m the minority of, I love this so much. This is my favorite thing ever. So that difference of, I love what I’m learning. This is not a means to an end, I guess. This is the ends to my mean.
Don Mock 8:55
Sure. Wow.
Zoe Mock 8:56
Yeah, so learning that too. Going on that gut feeling, deciding to go to a design school. Yeah, I think I’m gonna like this. This is giving me an excited tingle that I’ve never felt before.
Don Mock 9:07
Yeah, that’s cool.
Zoe Mock 9:08
Just that complete validation, having people around that also support that, because you’re completely surrounded by it. I think this might be the only time in my life where it’s 100% complete design nerds.
Don Mock 9:18
Yes.
Zoe Mock 9:19
Everywhere. Unless I go into a design firm.
Don Mock 9:21
Yeah, when I was in design school many moons ago, we would wake up, start doing graphic design. Then you’re rockin and… Oh, it’s two o’clock in the morning. But man, we had the time of our lives. Because you are living, breathing, drinking, all things- and you’re a sponge, you’re soaking it all in, you’re learning new things. You’re trying new things, you’re exploring, and you’re surrounded by- you keep saying nerds- but you’re surrounded by like-minded individuals that have that same passion. You know what I mean? You’re collaborating. I mean, all sorts of good thing things are happening. It’s pretty cool. It’s pretty fun. Hopefully that that’ll still happen, once you bounce out and start your career, you know what I mean? You’ll be in an environment that fosters that level of creativity. What you’ll have to develop is obviously that work-life balance, and you’ll have to transition to that. I’m being bossy. It’s soap-boxy,. You’ll learn when you’re good at different parts of your job. When do you create? When do you build? Things like that.
Zoe Mock 10:29
This ad agency that we’re sitting in right now does a very good job of- what’s their name again?
Don Mock 10:34
Mock, the Agency. You can find us online at mocktheagency.com.
Zoe Mock 10:37
On the interwebs, @mocktheagency. Thank you, Mr. Rob.
Don Mock 10:41
Take a look at our Instagram, it’s magical.
Zoe Mock 10:44
Instead of the end of the episode, smacking it right in the middle. For those transcripts, you gotta get the-
Don Mock 10:49
We’ll do it. We’ll do it at the end, too.
Zoe Mock 10:51
Every time I say add in the transcript, we get the highlight word “ad” takes us to my- it’s fantastic.
Don Mock 10:57
Oh my god. It’s almost like you’re you’re speaking Search Engine Optimization. Andrew, I know you’re listening to this right now.
Zoe Mock 11:05
MOCK MOCK MOCK.
Don Mock 11:06
Stopstopstop. Okay, goofball. All right. What else? What else have you learned? You know, dare I- Season Two?
Zoe Mock 11:13
Dare I say, season two.
Don Mock 11:14
Dare I say, season two. Season Two Georgia Tech, in industrial design.
Zoe Mock 11:17
Season One chews you up and spits you out.
Don Mock 11:20
Yeah. I think that’s good for you though. It’s good for everybody.
Zoe Mock 11:23
It either says, “you can’t do this.” Or “it’s all you, you got chewed up and spit out.” And you feel like you can keep going. and so you kind of have that like, Alright, I have this chip on my shoulder. I have this badge of surviving year one.
Don Mock 11:34
Yeah, yeah.
Zoe Mock 11:34
And then year two welcomes you and this open embrace. This is year two, we’re gonna design for other people now, instead of you. We’re an audio medium. So you can’t see what I’m doing. But it’s this very loving, now we’re all coming together and in collectiveness to undertsand other people.
Don Mock 11:53
Okay, so it’s not the great return. it’s not like, Oh, I got chewed up and spit out, and then season two is a triumphant return on horseback with a flaming sword. It feels like, it’s a soft, it’s a soft, loving embrace. Coming back in gentle and footsteps in the forest.
Zoe Mock 12:10
We have to lure you back in, because I’m scared you all so horrible. I’m kidding. Then it dives into, Alright, well, you designed for yourself the entirety of last year, and you learned how to do everything by using yourself as the experiment. Out into the world you go, you’re gonna go find these groups of people that you want to help. Your projects are centered around other people like shockingly. It’s using all those tools that you learned first year to implement those in the second year, but on the concept of being able to backup your designs by research from other people. It definitely ties in- the research institute that I attend- that tech does very well. You will be able to back up what you’re saying with XYZ data and figuring out.
Don Mock 12:54
That’s the way the real world well- I hesitate to say, the real world, but the professional world. 99% of the things I’ve worked on in my career are not for me. That’s what makes the job so challenging and interesting. It’s all of the internal hoops that you have to run through both on our side and on client sides. That’s what makes such a level of appreciation of magical things out in the world, when they make it out in the world. Because I have to think about the target audience. I have to think about what the desired result is. I have to think about what the tactics are.
Zoe Mock 13:31
How many levels of user testing.
Don Mock 13:32
But then I have to then sell that back through, through clients, who probably aren’t the target audience either.
Zoe Mock 13:39
Yeah.
Don Mock 13:40
They’re the marketing manager.
Zoe Mock 13:41
The hypothetical that people who would actually want this, will want this.
Don Mock 13:44
Yeah, but it’s more than hypothetical. I think a lot of the stuff is grounded in fact.
Zoe Mock 13:49
No, I’m saying, when you’re pitching to clients. If they’re not the target audience, we’re relying on the fact that they understand that who their audiences will like this, that hypothetical.
Don Mock 14:00
Exactly. Alright, so what are you looking forward to next? I guess we’ve done year one, year two, and then what are we looking forward to in year three? Do we do we even know that? Are we even there yet? I have no idea.
Zoe Mock 14:16
I’ve learned to just open my arms and accept what will be given.
Don Mock 14:20
What do I always say, Zoe?
Zoe Mock 14:21
“Is the juice worth the squeeze?”
Don Mock 14:23
I say that a lot. Or I say “Surf the wave that comes.”
Zoe Mock 14:27
That is true. I will say year two has been defined by, “Is the juice worth the squeeze?”
Don Mock 14:31
Really?
Zoe Mock 14:32
And a lot of lessons like that. Is this disagreement worth it? Year two is a lot of navigating people and being able to-
Don Mock 14:40
Talk to me more about that.
Zoe Mock 14:41
I don’t agree on this one thing but, we for the betterment of the studio, of the group.
Don Mock 14:48
Rob and I did do a chat on Working with Difficult People. Whether they’re your clients or your co-workers or whatever.
Zoe Mock 14:55
Inside the studio and out. And it’s where, 45 people now, that are together 18 hours a day. That are in the same building 18 hours a day.
Don Mock 15:04
It’s not always going to be Kumbuya.
Zoe Mock 15:05
It’s not always gonna be Kumbaya. That navigation this year coming from, oh, I saw what they did last year, and I’m not sure what’s going on. Just that navigation of everyone’s personalities and trying to exist in this harmony. And how many dynamics are going on at the same time. It has been really interesting. So I’m excited to see how that develops in year three, because year three breaks off into people who may have started the program later than others. Now they can jump ahead in studios and leave the cohort. We branch off into different studios. I’ll be in the UI UX studio, but there’s a health studio, there’s an electrical studio, and then there’s the traditional product design studio. So the cohort will get smaller per studio, but we’ll split through four. So the dynamic is going to change.
Don Mock 15:51
Interesting.
Zoe Mock 15:51
I’m a little bit bittersweet on that, because it’s our big happy family is, not breaking up but changing.
Don Mock 15:56
I love to hear you say that you think it’s interesting. Because not everybody will agree on everything all the time. I think that’s what’s so fantastic about the industry, in general, is that different viewpoints, different perspectives. Even though you’re going through the same path, you will have different strengths and weaknesses.
Zoe Mock 16:13
I mean, we turned out 50 chairs, and each chair was completely different.
Don Mock 16:16
Yeah, that’s pretty cool.
Zoe Mock 16:17
Which is, if you happen to be in Atlanta on May 4, from five to nine, there is this event called Launchpad. Where you can come see all 45 chairs.
Don Mock 16:25
Sure.
Zoe Mock 16:27
And all the other magicalness that the College of Design at Georgia Tech has to show.
Don Mock 16:30
Am I gonna be able to sit in any of these chairs or no?
Zoe Mock 16:32
Mine will be there and mine is sittable. The only ones that are there can be sat in.
Don Mock 16:37
Okay. All right. That’s cool. I hate to break it to you. But this might come out after the fourth.
Zoe Mock 16:43
It’s okay.
Don Mock 16:44
May the fourth. I think Mike and I did a Star Wars episode for May the fourth, Design of Star Wars. I’m giving away trade secrets now. This is things that have already happened.
Zoe Mock 16:55
Maybe.
Don Mock 16:56
All right. Well, anything else? I mean, we’ve been rapping here for 17 minutes. Anything else? Do you need to get back to it? You probably need to get back to it.
Zoe Mock 17:05
I need to get back to it. I don’t have any other notes. All right. well, I’m excited for year three. Still love what I do. It still makes me very happy.
Don Mock 17:13
I’m excited for year three as well.
Zoe Mock 17:16
A portfolio is ZoeLMock.com.
Don Mock 17:19
Okay. Oh, wow. Well, here we go. Where can people find you, Zoe?
Zoe Mock 17:23
Zoe Mock on LinkedIn that zoelmock.com. I’m everywhere. LinkedIn.com/zoelmock.
Don Mock 17:30
Alright, and where can the people find us, Zoe?
Zoe Mock 17:32
Well, it’s mocktheagency.com. On the interwebs, people can find you on Instagram and Twitter and everything @mocktheagency. You guys float around on 14th Street and frequent Wagaya.
Don Mock 17:41
Well played. Yes. That’s it for today. Thanks, everybody for listening. Drop us a review. Snoop us up online. Alright. Thanks everybody.
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