Episode Transcript
Don Mock 0:20
Alright, Episode 80. We’re back and we’re back with Zoe. Hello, Zoe.
Zoe Mock 0:23
Hello.
Don Mock 0:24
How are you?
Zoe Mock 0:25
I just realized how white your shoes are. They’re very clean.
Don Mock 0:28
Yeah, I need –
Zoe Mock 0:29
They’re very clean.
Don Mock 0:30
I take good care of my sneaks.
Zoe Mock 0:32
They need a little bit of dirtying up.
Don Mock 0:33
No.
Zoe Mock 0:34
They need to fall into a puddle.
Don Mock 0:35
I do not look shab – you know what’s funny, is your brother –
Zoe Mock 0:39
Oh, Hi Kirby.
Don Mock 0:41
Shout out! Has a hilarious –
Zoe Mock 0:44
Mad respect, dog.
Don Mock 0:46
What? Has a hilarious line about sneaker heads. So I’m kind of putting him on blast here.
Zoe Mock 0:51
No, do it. Because I ordered new sneakers today. Which I’m very excited about.
Don Mock 0:54
Well, his thing is – because as a lot of the world knows, I love comics. I love collecting comics. I love comic art. Gonzo was just on the podcast not that long ago.
Zoe Mock 1:02
Shoutout, Gonzo.
Don Mock 1:03
Yeah, I love sequential storytelling. I am just enthralled with the artistic ability of illustration and all that good stuff.
Zoe Mock 1:09
We know, get it. Okay.
Don Mock 1:10
So I am a huge fan of “Hey, whatever you’re into, collect whatever you want. Love what you love.” I think that’s great. So the other day –
Zoe Mock 1:17
Be weird.
Don Mock 1:18
He was talking about the guys that collect sneakers or whatever the proper term for that is. Sneakerheads or whatver.
Zoe Mock 1:24
I would say sneakerheads.
Don Mock 1:24
And he was like, “Ugh, sneakers.” He’s like, “Any hobby that would make you scared of puddles seems pretty silly to me.” And I’m like, “You know what? It’s actually not bad.” It’s not a bad commentary.
Zoe Mock 1:39
He has to hear that somewhere.
Don Mock 1:40
I don’t know. I don’t know.
Zoe Mock 1:41
I mean, Great artists steal but come on. That’s fantastic.
Don Mock 1:45
But I do love the artistry involved with create – as much as I bag on fashion all the time, cuz it’s just an interesting business model.
Zoe Mock 1:54
I mean, you’re preaching to the choir with industrial design.
Don Mock 1:55
Yeah, yeah. But I think it’s cool. I think people that collect sneakers and all- I mean, what was that – ?
Zoe Mock 2:03
Should we make the podcast about sneakers?
Don Mock 2:04
No, no. What was that Jeff Goldblum show that was on NatGeo or something like that? Where he used to go to all the different… it was like the world through Jeff’s eyes. And he went to Sneaker Con. Like in the Javits. It was like, “Whoa, like what is going on?” I was like, “Man, this is awesome.” Love what you love. I think it’s great. So again, we’ve totally been derailed. I thought we had a plan coming into this but you have set us off plan, which I love it.
Zoe Mock 2:30
Well, okay, I like sneakers, I like the collection of sneakers.
Don Mock 2:32
You just happen to look down and see how kick-ass clean these sneaks are. Boom.
Zoe Mock 2:38
I am not – I’m happy to jump in puddles with shoes, though. Shoes are meant to be worn.
Don Mock 2:41
When have you ever seen me with white sneak, too? I don’t wear white sneaks a lot.
Zoe Mock 2:44
You don’t wear white sneaks.
Don Mock 2:44
But they look good.
Zoe Mock 2:45
You wear a monkey see, monkey do shoes.
Don Mock 2:46
Oh god. That’s a family story that is not –
Zoe Mock 2:50
We do not have nearly enough time for this.
Don Mock 2:52
Absolutely not. All right. Zoe, what – it’s episode 80? What are we talking about?
Zoe Mock 2:55
Episode 80? You made it to 80?
Don Mock 2:57
Yeah, Eight Zero, the Big Eight Zero. Can you believe we’ve done 80 of these things?
Zoe Mock 3:01
Yes. You talk a lot.
Don Mock 3:02
Yeah. Ouch.
Zoe Mock 3:07
A lot of talking on Spotify.
Don Mock 3:08
What are we talking about today?
Zoe Mock 3:11
I thought we would talk about internship.
Don Mock 3:12
Interns. Because you are a summer intern.
Zoe Mock 3:14
I am a summer intern at a place who shall not be named.
Don Mock 3:17
Okay.
Zoe Mock 3:17
But you guys have had interns in the past.
Don Mock 3:19
We have had interns in the past.
Zoe Mock 3:21
Have you ever been an intern?
Don Mock 3:22
We just had an intern for most of the summer.
Zoe Mock 3:24
Were you an intern?
Don Mock 3:25
Yeah, technically my first job that brought me to Atlanta –
Zoe Mock 3:28
At Turner, was an internship.
Don Mock 3:29
Yeah, was a glorified intern?
Zoe Mock 3:31
Yeah. Okay.
Don Mock 3:32
Because it was a –
Zoe Mock 3:34
It was like a year long thing.
Don Mock 3:35
It was a year long contract.
Zoe Mock 3:36
So call it a co-op.
Don Mock 3:37
But employment was not – full time employment was not guaranteed at the end of that year. Although everybody everybody who wanted to stay stayed. But the interesting internship or job or whatever, was designed as such, that you would rotate through many different divisions of of Turner.
Zoe Mock 4:00
Do you know what a co-op is?
Don Mock 4:01
I do know what a co-op is. But I prefer not to call it that.
Zoe Mock 4:05
A co-op. You co-oped. Be proud of it. Georgia Tech loves co-ops.
Don Mock 4:09
Okay, well, you guys are fancy.
Zoe Mock 4:12
Yeah, I call my classes co-ops.
Don Mock 4:12
So I did my year there and I rotated all through whatever. It was great. It was an awesome experience and then decided this is not for me. I wanted to get out of the land of television and kind of go into the land of advertising and design.
Zoe Mock 4:13
Gotcha.
Don Mock 4:13
So I did do technically an internship. Yes. And we have had a number of interns and we just had an intern.
Zoe Mock 4:32
Shout out them.
Don Mock 4:33
Yeah, we just had an intern for a bulk of the school year, actually, too.
Zoe Mock 4:38
Cool. Oh, I don’t know that.
Don Mock 4:41
Our friend Max. Max was here. He’d come in twice a week. And he is off on his way. He’s a senior in high school and then he’s off on his way to college. So we did have a fun little intern- but we have also had summer interns. So that that’s kind of a special case, but we’ve also had summer interns like the traditional summer internship like –
Zoe Mock 4:59
That I have. My 10 or 12 week?
Don Mock 5:02
Yeah, the challenge with interns for us –
Zoe Mock 5:06
Get right into it.
Don Mock 5:07
Yeah, I’m just gonna start going. Is that, we’re moving. I mean, we’re moving and grooving and interns…
Zoe Mock 5:13
There’s a lot of learning.
Don Mock 5:15
Yeah. Don’t know anything. Which is –
Zoe Mock 5:18
I’m example number one.
Don Mock 5:18
Which is fine. So our staff has ebbed and flowed over the years in terms of just body count and things like that. If we have more time and more flexibility, yeah, I love interns. I love teaching. Obviously, I taught for a number of years. I love –
Zoe Mock 5:34
There’s an episode about that. If you wanna check it out.
Don Mock 5:36
Yeah, I’d love to, “Hey, come on under the wing. Let me show you the way. Here is – “
Zoe Mock 5:40
Stand right behind me and watch me use Illustrator?
Don Mock 5:42
Yeah, here’s how we do it… I mean, that’s an option. I do love that. But man, we are busy, we are moving and grooving. We are rocking work for clients. And sometimes it’s kind of hard to just stop. So if there are different levels of education in intern applications… if you’re kind of closer to the end, and I don’t have to teach you programs, and you kind of have philosophies and things like that. Theory of design and things like that already already in the pipe.
Zoe Mock 6:13
Yes.
Don Mock 6:14
You’re probably better suited to sit in a shop like ours, because I can actually have you shadow assignments. So it’s like, “Hey, we got a new logo project, or we got a new this, that and whatever.” Three of the people here are going to be working on it, why don’t you jump in on it and do one, too? Sit in as we launch the product or project sit in, as we review it internally, Hey, sit in on a client presentation, sit in on feedback, that type of thing. And if the works good enough, of course, a will throw to the next one out. But a lot of interns just just start aren’t ready for that.
Zoe Mock 6:51
Sure.
Don Mock 6:51
And are probably better suited for a larger firm. Where they can kind of go a little slower.
Zoe Mock 6:58
There’s nowhere to hide.
Don Mock 6:58
There’s nowhere to hide here. Exactly, exactly.
Zoe Mock 7:00
100 percent.
Don Mock 7:01
The other challenge with summer internships, at least of this cycle, I would say specific for us. Specifically –
Zoe Mock 7:08
Phase of the business?
Don Mock 7:09
Specifically 2023. Like right now, this calendar.
Zoe Mock 7:13
This fiscal year ends today.
Don Mock 7:15
Oh, you just you got out for the summer and then realized you want an internship and you just sent me something and it’s already July. Or it’s already June. That type of thing. And it’s kind of late to be asking for intern…
Zoe Mock 7:30
Georgia Tech has its –
Don Mock 7:30
Summer’s almost over. Like, what are you talking about here?
Zoe Mock 7:33
Well, you wanna know the way that Tech operates?
Don Mock 7:34
I would love to hear how Tech operates.
Zoe Mock 7:36
I’m applying for next year right now. And I know people who have things lined up for 2024.
Don Mock 7:41
So call it a full calendar –
Zoe Mock 7:42
Full calendar year. Yeah. I signed with who I’m with now, accepted everything before Thanksgiving –
Don Mock 7:49
Of last year.
Zoe Mock 7:50
Of 2022.
Don Mock 7:50
Yeah. Interesting.
Zoe Mock 7:51
Yeah. So it’s, it’s a mad dash in the spring. Then there’s that collective like, “ooh, if you’re at the career fair, in the spring of that calendar year -“
Don Mock 8:01
Somebody dropped the ball.
Zoe Mock 8:04
Now, but it’s different for engineering. It’s different for design, I understand that. But there’s a lot of we have these things figured out super far in advance. Especially with big corporations.
Don Mock 8:14
Yeah. That’s what I was going to say.
Zoe Mock 8:15
Me being one of like, 50 interns in my class.
Don Mock 8:19
You stole my question. I was going to ask: how many interns are at the place that you are interning with now?
Zoe Mock 8:25
I’m one of 20 –
Don Mock 8:26
20 interns? Wow.
Zoe Mock 8:27
On my floor? There’s I think 10 others at a different location.
Don Mock 8:33
So is it safe to say that, that internship path is a recruitment tool?
Zoe Mock 8:40
Yes.
Don Mock 8:41
For that corporation.
Zoe Mock 8:43
Yes. Every meeting, there’s a flex about the retention from intern to full time.
Don Mock 8:48
Interesting. Okay. Wow.
Zoe Mock 8:50
Some of the people I work with were interns last summer and are now full time hires.
Don Mock 8:55
Okay. Wow. That’s cool.
Zoe Mock 8:56
Who are fantastic people.
Don Mock 8:56
That’s wesome.
Zoe Mock 8:57
It’s all great. It’s really interesting, though, to watch it all happen and unfold.
Don Mock 9:01
Yeah. I mean, I can only speak from my experience. None of our interns have ever gone on to take full-time positions here with us. I would say that a vast majority of previous agencies that I worked at, it was just a part time pitstop for interns, and they never ended up staying with with that agency or design firm. Part of that, I think, is the nature of our business and the freelance mentality. You guys – I don’t want to make assumptions here so correct me if I’m wrong – but it seems like, because it is a feeder system and you’re getting in, you’re locking in fees, you’re locking in time for the summer, next summer, whatever the case may be. Then you’re kind of given runway to prove your worth. Do you fit in, do you do this?
Zoe Mock 9:45
Yes.
Don Mock 9:47
We do that on the freelance mentality. Like “Oh, hey, we’re looking to hire somebody.” We’re looking to hire a designer or developer or whatever.
Zoe Mock 9:52
How long have you been freelance? What work do you have?
Don Mock 9:54
And it’s “Hey, why don’t you pull up a chair over here for the next couple of weeks, and sit in the place.”
Zoe Mock 10:01
Mmm,hmm. Sink or swim.
Don Mock 10:01
Yeah. And everybody takes it for a ride, meaning we’re test driving you to see. But I am very, very upfront about “Hey, it has to work for you, as much as it has to work for us.” I only want people here that want to be here and that enjoy being here. That’s what’s gonna foster –
Zoe Mock 10:19
If you don’t feel a vibe, you don’t feel a vibe.
Don Mock 10:20
Yeah, exactly.
Zoe Mock 10:21
No harm, no foul, but let’s figure this out up front.
Don Mock 10:22
Exactly. So on the creative side of life, that’s pretty common, in terms of the the test drive- two weeks, a month, six weeks, two months, whatver.
Zoe Mock 10:33
I’ve been given a 12 week test run.
Don Mock 10:34
Yeah, exactly.
Zoe Mock 10:35
Yeah.
Don Mock 10:36
But it’s a year ahead of schedule.
Zoe Mock 10:37
It’s a year ahead of schedule. I still have like two or three years left in school, too. There’s no –
Don Mock 10:43
Two or three?
Zoe Mock 10:45
We’ll talk about that.
Don Mock 10:48
Just kidding. I know. So I would say that we are not anti-intern by any stretch. Full, full transparency. Some of our interns have been far more successful than others. And that just –
Zoe Mock 11:01
That’s with everyone, though.
Don Mock 11:02
Yeah, we did have one of our interns actually drop a note after the fact and be like, “Whoa, I really didn’t know anything when I was there with you guys.”
Zoe Mock 11:11
Thank you guys so much.
Don Mock 11:12
Thank you guys so much. But also –
Zoe Mock 11:17
Sorry, I was cracking my knuckles.
Don Mock 11:18
I know. It’s distracting. It was, “I feel like I would have been better prepared had I been further along, to sit in there.” You know who that is. And I will tell you off-air.
Zoe Mock 11:30
I know who that is because they went to a finishing school. Yeah, I remember that.
Don Mock 11:35
And she ended up, she’s up in New York. And she’s totally kicking ass. She’s totally awesome.
Zoe Mock 11:39
Well, then, I would give credit to the internship for opening her eyes.
Don Mock 11:42
Yeah. So I’m not anti- intern by any stretch, but it’s really up to the candidate. It’s not a cattle call of emails, and just blind emails. I mean, we get so many.
Zoe Mock 11:56
Cold emailing?
Don Mock 11:56
Yeah, I get so much stuff all the time.
Zoe Mock 11:58
I love getting forwarded those.
Don Mock 12:01
Do you want to tell any of those funny stories?
Zoe Mock 12:03
We’ll call them “Best of”s. I would say that, where I go to school is very good at teaching us how to reach out to people. How to cold email, how to network and interact. If I’m going to cold email, I know what I’m getting into. Some people, that’s not necessarily the case for them. That’s why I get forwarded emails from about, “Look at what’s happening here.” Where it’s different company’s name in, “Hey, Don, at not mocktheagency. Really interested to work for you guys. Here’s my portfolio. Click.” Those are always momentous.
Don Mock 12:44
I am… What we’re getting at here, is I am absolutely not opposed to the copy and paste email approach.
Zoe Mock 12:51
But live up to it.
Don Mock 12:52
Yeah, if you’re on that side of the fence, and you’re sending out a bunch of notes to a bunch of different places that you’re interested in.
Zoe Mock 12:58
Feeling the waters.
Don Mock 12:59
Right. And it’s, Hey, you’ve written your chunk, you’ve crafted your email, right? I’m not opposed to that whatsoever. But it astounds me how often we get emails. “Hey, Don, I really love the work at X company.”
Zoe Mock 13:15
Or they haven’t inserted yet it.
Don Mock 13:17
Insert her?
Zoe Mock 13:18
X with yeah.
Don Mock 13:18
Yes. So oftentimes, what I’ll do is I’ll do a quick reply and just say, “Hey, if you’re interested in working at Company X, you should send Company X an email and not us.”
Zoe Mock 13:21
Thanks.
Don Mock 13:21
You know, good luck, that type of thing. Then the responses are great. Responses are.
Zoe Mock 13:34
“Oh my God, blah blah blah blah blah. My dog fell off a cliff.”
Don Mock 13:38
It’s just own it. We’re all people, we all put our pants on – don’t – so the backtracking and the fibbing and the stuff like that. It’s like, oh, you’re just digging the hole even deeper. So that has nothing to do with internships. That’s just an interesting side note about just how to get into –
Zoe Mock 13:54
Just navigating the vast network.
Don Mock 13:58
Yeah. absolutely. Absolutely. So I think, if anyone out there actually is interested in interning here, it’s about multiple things. It’s about determination. One email is not going to do it. This is not an invitation to send me 100 emails, but one random email in the in the sea of emails, I will say, even for me back in the day, the best way that I always got communication back was send somebody a box in the mail. Or even better yet, spend 20 bucks and FedEx somebody something.
Zoe Mock 14:29
You’re showing your age.
Don Mock 14:30
No, but hey, this is a – direct mail still works. I get hundreds of emails an hour, right? If a FedEx box lands on my desk…
Zoe Mock 14:41
It’s a big deal.
Don Mock 14:42
Am I going to sit there and never open it? Of course, I’m going to open the Fed. You know what I mean? So again, determination of communication is number one. I think you have to have some modicum of skill set. It can’t be like, Hey, I’m first year in college or something like that. I need you to be closer to the college.
Zoe Mock 14:59
Baseline skill set determination.
Don Mock 15:03
Then do your homework on us. Everyone loves to be loved.
Zoe Mock 15:06
Yes.
Don Mock 15:06
Hey, I saw your work on XYZ client. Oh, I looked at your website.
Zoe Mock 15:10
I love the nurses in Africa campaign.
Don Mock 15:11
Yeah, I love that… whatever the case may be.
Zoe Mock 15:14
I’m an avid listener of your podcast.
Don Mock 15:17
Then lastly, I would say, show an interest in what you want to work on. I love doing X, I want to do this, can I learn this, this and this with you? That type of thing. Because then it’s like, “oh, okay.”
Zoe Mock 15:31
I saw you guys did this. I’m really interested in it.
Don Mock 15:33
Now, the caveat to all of this is, do not send me a six-page email. We need it to be short and sweet, and a snippet. You know what I mean? If I have to scroll, I’m not reading that whole email. I sound like a jerk saying that out loud. But short, sweet, impactful, that type of thing. But I think the cycle for this summer is done. It’s too late.
Zoe Mock 16:01
100%.
Don Mock 16:02
It’s too late for thatt now. But I think the right place internships is a beautiful thing. I think that you are having a great experience with your internship, whether you end up there or not. I think it’s just… The goal is learning, right?
Zoe Mock 16:15
So much learning is happening. It’s crazy.
Don Mock 16:16
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And sometimes learning what you don’t like is just as important as what you do like.
Zoe Mock 16:22
If you’re trying to get an internship, let’s make a list of… we’ll say, start a calendar year ahead. Genuinely. I think you should do that.
Don Mock 16:30
Here. You’re the professional intern here. I mean, give the listeners a play-by-play on what you think is successful.
Zoe Mock 16:37
Okay. Okay. I got you. Calendar year head. Keep your resume in tip top shape. Nothing from 2005. Only only top things. I would say if your GPA is under 3.0, wipe it off.
Don Mock 16:50
You’re going?
Zoe Mock 16:51
We’re going deep in this.
Don Mock 16:52
Okay.
Zoe Mock 16:54
If it’s a more technical position, I would say portfolio and cover letter are great.
Don Mock 16:58
Yeah.
Zoe Mock 16:58
If it’s not as technical, it’s more, I don’t know what I’m getting myself into yet, you can leave out the cover letter.
Don Mock 17:04
Let me jump in here and say…
Zoe Mock 17:07
Do tell.
Don Mock 17:08
You need to specify what you’re trying to intern for.
Zoe Mock 17:11
Exactly.
Don Mock 17:12
Even when I get job applications for people. It’s like, “Hey, I want to work there.” Okay, great.
Zoe Mock 17:16
Period.
Don Mock 17:16
What do you do? Like, I don’t – what’s your – ?
Zoe Mock 17:19
What do you do? What do you want to do?
Don Mock 17:20
What would you say you do?
Zoe Mock 17:22
Specify.
Don Mock 17:22
Because we have a lot of different types of jobs here. So that nebulous is not a helped anybody. Because it might be like, “Oh, my God, yes. I need a web programmer, or I need a C Plus Plus expert.”
Zoe Mock 17:34
But I don’t know that you’re any of those things, because you haven’t said it.
Don Mock 17:36
Exactly, exactly. All right. Chime in, keep going.
Zoe Mock 17:38
I would say those things. Then I would say polish off the online presence as well.
Don Mock 17:44
Yes.
Zoe Mock 17:44
That could be a whole other podcast, but nothing ridiculous attached to your name. Also have the LinkedIn up to date. Have your portfolio up to date.
Don Mock 17:53
Double check that Twitter account.
Zoe Mock 17:55
Good. Exactly. Maybe go private. Just nice and clean and friendly to begin with. Because I mean, I had to get a full panel background check.
Don Mock 18:05
Oh, I didn’t know that.
Zoe Mock 18:06
I had to submit. I got back to the, “Hey, we saw you did X, Y and Z thing? Can you submit proof of that?” And I was like, “Oh!”
Don Mock 18:14
Wow. Digging deep.
Zoe Mock 18:16
“Didn’t know that.” But yeah, I just –
Don Mock 18:20
It’s more common than not.
Zoe Mock 18:21
Being a friendly face. And to all of your points.
Don Mock 18:24
I mean, how do you feel about that? Just out of curiosity, like – ?
Zoe Mock 18:26
Background checks?
Don Mock 18:27
Well, yeah, just the deep under the microscope.
Zoe Mock 18:32
I would say my generation has known they’re under the microscope since we were a little. I would say, to an extent, everyone is pretty careful and pretty knowledgeable that my name is attached to what I’m doing.
Don Mock 18:44
I’ve said for years that I’m so glad that none of this stuff existed when I was a youth.
Zoe Mock 18:48
But I mean, it’s just the way… there’s that and then a lot of technical positions with drug testing, too. That’s a whole different realm. But I mean, if you –
Don Mock 19:01
There’s a lot. It depends on the company, but there’s a lot of liability associated with employees.
Zoe Mock 19:05
Yeah. So I mean, I think all of it makes sense. I agree with it. I mean, it’s not my choice. But there are rules to follow for reasons.
Don Mock 19:12
We’re a strange society that has become unbelievably litigious-based, and so insurance compliant, that the whole… it’s all a cover-your-ass mentality, to a certain extent. And you can’t invite people in and just expect them to be who they say they are. Unfortunately, sometimes.
Zoe Mock 19:28
Yeah, yeah. So I would say those things, friendly face. I wouldn’t call myself the resident…
Don Mock 19:34
The resident intern expert?
Zoe Mock 19:37
Yeah, yeah. And then –
Don Mock 19:40
The RIE. Resident Intern Expert.
Zoe Mock 19:43
Resident…
Don Mock 19:45
Intern expert.
Zoe Mock 19:45
Resident intern… okay.
Don Mock 19:48
Re.
Zoe Mock 19:49
Re? Re!
Don Mock 19:50
I don’t know. All right. Any other any final closing thoughts on interns?
Zoe Mock 19:56
Then once you get an internship, make sure you know what the dress code is.
Don Mock 19:59
Yeah. For sure.
Zoe Mock 20:00
Especially with all this in-person stuff again. Whoo!
Don Mock 20:03
Yes. Hey, I love the in-person. It’s great. As you’re rolling your eyes, as you’re rolling your eyes.
Zoe Mock 20:08
Sure.
Don Mock 20:10
Alright, everybody, you can find us online at mocktheagency.com.
Zoe Mock 20:12
On the interwebs at mock the agency.
Don Mock 20:13
You can find us on the on the socials. That’s what I just said. You’re just repeating me.
Zoe Mock 20:19
Well, you said mocktheagency.com and I said… did you say the interwebs?
Don Mock 20:22
No, I just said online.
Zoe Mock 20:23
Okay, I said on the interwebs.
Don Mock 20:24
I know. All right, why don’t you take us home, Zoe?
Zoe Mock 20:27
I don’t know what else we say.
Don Mock 20:28
We say then you can find us on all the socials.
Zoe Mock 20:30
Then you can find us on all the socials @mocktheagency and drop us a line.
Don Mock 20:33
Yeah. All right.
Zoe Mock 20:34
With any thoughts, rates, reviews.
Don Mock 20:38
Only positive feedback.
Zoe Mock 20:38
Internship horror stories.
Don Mock 20:40
Yeah. Or problems with your dog food.
Zoe Mock 20:42
Yeah.
Don Mock 20:43
All right. Thanks, everybody. We’ll chat with you next time.
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