Episode Transcript
Don Mock 0:20
All right, episode 126, we’re back.
Rob Broadfoot 0:22
We’re back.
Don Mock 0:22
Episode 126 All right, so we were just about to record, and Rob was about to ask me a question, and I threw out, wait a minute, is this a podcast? So I don’t know what’s about to happen. You were about to ask me a question, and then we thought, hey, let’s just record it live. We’ll do it live and see what happens, right? So what’s about to happen? I’m intrigued
Rob Broadfoot 0:45
yeah. Well, the question is, Who are you voting for? No, I’m just kidding.
Don Mock 0:50
okay, well, let’s jump into controversy.
Hey man maybe it’ll help our subscriptions.
Rob Broadfoot 1:01
I guess. I guess it depends. No, it is an industry relevant question. And I had lunch with a good friend of mine that I graduated from the University of Georgia with, who shall remain nameless.
Don Mock 1:16
Go Dogs.
Rob Broadfoot 1:17
Go Dogs. That’s right, yes, this on the days leading up to the inaugural season for the dogs.
Don Mock 1:25
we already won our game, so we’re
Rob Broadfoot 1:27
Yeah, yeah. Go bees,
Don Mock 1:28
yeah. Buzz. Buzz.
Rob Broadfoot 1:31
Anyway, having lunch with with a good friend of mine and his oldest child, recently graduated from an esteemed University, that shall remain nameless, also um, but graduated um with an art degree
Don Mock 1:51
okay, I’m a fan of that worked out for me, right?
Rob Broadfoot 1:55
is interested in in we had an interesting discussion. She, she got a fine art degree, and he coached her, I guess, coached her. He suggested, you know, a year or two ago, he said, Hey, I think that’s great. Like, totally support. It’s wonderful.
Don Mock 2:10
Now fine art, like, painting? I’m interrupting, but, like
Rob Broadfoot 2:13
I believe fine art,
Don Mock 2:14
okay, fine art, drawing, drawing and painting.
Rob Broadfoot 2:16
And he, he couldn’t be as parents and children often are. He couldn’t be any more different. Meaning, he’s a very business, business, business. He’s in the commercial real estate industry. So he’s just very, very, very busy.
Don Mock 2:27
Reminded me of my old neighbor, I can tell that story.
Rob Broadfoot 2:30
So he said to her, he said, Hey, I think it’s wonderful. Obviously, I support everything you’re doing. You might want to think about.
Don Mock 2:40
I know where this is going.
Rob Broadfoot 2:41
You know what you might do with a degree like that. And is there something you can minor in, potentially, that would help, dare I say, eventually commoditize that, right? What can we do with that?
Don Mock 2:53
Yeah, can we pivot this fine art into commercial art?
Rob Broadfoot 2:56
Yeah how can we support that? Yeah. And so she so, she did, she did? I think she got a minor in it might have been digital, just sort of animation stuff that she could obviously apply to an industry like ours, let’s say so. His question to me was, okay, she’s done with school. She’s interested in animation. Is it a worthwhile endeavor for her to go to art school, okay, to get a call it a graduate degree in like, animation? That was his question to me.
Don Mock 3:35
That’s the question, all right, and you’re gonna ask me that question
Rob Broadfoot 3:38
well, and I’m also fine to say specifically, SCAD.
Don Mock 3:41
Okay, You want me to go first?
Rob Broadfoot 3:45
I want you to go first and then I’ll tell you what I said.
Don Mock 3:48
Okay I would love to hear it. I would love to hear the answer to what you said. I can say this because I’m a SCAD grad. Here’s where the controversy comes in. Right? When I went to SCAD, many, many moons ago, SCAD was, was, I’m going to start with the, you know, the, I don’t even know what I’m trying to say here, controversial part of the answer. I guess, when I went to SCAD, it was the most affordable of all of the sort of prestigious art schools, right? And I did not get a degree in a traditional Fine Art degree, like there was an opportunity for me to go to RISD, yep, Rhode Island School of Design. But everything leaned a little bit to fine art, you know? And I didn’t want to go heavy, heavy illustration, right? I didn’t want to be like a children’s book illustrator, right, right? I wanted to get more of a commercial based, rounded art degree, right, which I could then apply into design or advertising or things like that. Right now, I do have the benefit of, you know, my dad’s a photographer my whole life, growing right so I could see, and I grew up at the dinner table with the intersection of art and commerce. Hey, photography is amazing. Oh, now you have Bridezilla telling you how to take pictures. You know what I mean? Like? And again, I. I’m painting with a broad brush here, right? Pun intended, but you know, so when I went to SCAD, I would say it was very, very affordable. I would say that as of now getting a graduate degree, because she’s already gone through a full degree and has done whatever, getting a graduate degree in an art program prior to ever going out in the world and practicing, I would not recommend
Rob Broadfoot 5:19
It’s also worth noting, you went to SCAD straight out of high school. Is that right? So it wasn’t like you went to a traditional four year university and then went
Don Mock 5:27
to, well, actually, I lied. I went to, I graduated high school early, didn’t know what I wanted to do with my life, so I went to community college.
Rob Broadfoot 5:33
Okay, so you had some,
Don Mock 5:34
yeah, so I had a year’s worth of, sort of that general education under my belt to figure out, like, what do I want to do with my life? You know what I mean? And then I kind of, you know, then I kind of, you know, it’s another story, but, you know, decided graphic design was kind of the plan, right? So, you know, going to graduate school for an art program, I would say, is a total waste of money. There’s my controversial statement, especially because there is no extra incentive for earning potential in our industry based on graduate degrees, right? You still start at the bottom of the heap, yeah. The only thing you can do is you can then teach at a university level with a graduate degree, right? In regards to, like, bfas, MFAs, those types of art, art side of life, right? So you’re not going to get additional it’s not like, transitioning to the business world where, like, Oh, I get an MBA, so I have a different tier potentially of earning potential. Now, like, this is a trade, and you get earning potential based on, you know, like, an electrician makes more money at the end of their career than they do at the beginning. You know what I mean? Like, like, you’re just faster, you’re better, you have better opportunities, things like that, right? So the Yeah, the controversial side would be, I would think that a graduate degree in art having never practiced on a commercial level as a total waste of money, yeah, all right.
Rob Broadfoot 6:54
Well, good news. We’re in alignment with our with our general answers. What I said to him was I said that I didn’t think a and again, no, this is a knock on SCAD, but fantastic, great place. They’re turning out some great students and some certainly talented folks. SCAD has gotten pretty expensive.
Don Mock 7:15
It’s expensive now.
Rob Broadfoot 7:15
SCAD has gotten pretty expensive, like all universities have, like many of them have, so it is expensive, and I think that, you know, in this specific instance, she’s already learned, she’s already been working on skills. She’s taken the animation classes and stuff I should also throw in. She’s doing a bunch of online stuff at home, okay, taking courses like learning skills and doing the things and doing all of that. And so, yeah, I said, Hey, she’s already got just sort of a foundation of knowledge based on that. Hopefully she could get an entry level position somewhere, sure, and just start doing, yeah, right. I think now more than ever, there’s on the job training, let’s say, and I think the way that the industry has our industry has evolved over the years in that there are so many smaller shops, there’s more opportunity once you do get in the door to work on other things and learn different skill sets.
Don Mock 7:15
Yeah, agreed.
Rob Broadfoot 7:17
Meaning, hey, we have folks that we hired for one thing, one thing, and then, oh, we hired him as an art director, and next thing, you know, they’re becoming a video editor. So they get into touch so many different things
Don Mock 8:30
Yeah, we didn’t know how to do a four minute cartoon until we had to do a four minute cartoon and it was awesome, and it won a gajillion awards, it was amazing.
Rob Broadfoot 8:39
So I think so that was my and also, to to your point, like you got to start at the bottom, no matter, no matter what, yeah, in this industry, so having the graduate degree doesn’t really, doesn’t really buy you anything additional earning potential. So that was my that was my coaching. I think it would be different if, you know, if you didn’t have that undergraduate study, and it was, Oh, I like art, and I’m coming out of high school. Then go to SCAD, then then go to learn the business and learn the art and learn the stuff, and then go out and get your job.
Don Mock 9:13
Well, let me flip the script and give you a surprise question. Then really quickly, do you remember we don’t have to say names or anything, but do you remember any of the colleges that any of our employees have ever gone to? that are no longer here.
Rob Broadfoot 9:26
I Remember a dearly departed War Eagle
Don Mock 9:30
Okay, there you go. There you go.
Rob Broadfoot 9:31
But, but that’s really the only one that stands out so, so generally speaking, no, it is not
Don Mock 9:36
Do you remember how many SCAD grads we’ve had?
Rob Broadfoot 9:40
I have no idea.
Don Mock 9:40
Okay. I mean, because we’ve had SCAD grads,
Rob Broadfoot 9:43
I have no idea. I have no idea.
Don Mock 9:46
I mean, to a certain extent, I started like, it doesn’t really matter. It’s kind of, do you have the skills to pay the bills? And we are a, you know, hey, the light switch is on. It’s time to produce, kind of company, yeah, you know what I mean? And like, hey, it’s time to jam. Ideas. It’s time to jam out designs, time to do production. It’s, you know, like you have to do the things you know. You know, we’re a efficient machine that creates things, right? We’re not one of those. We sit around and pontificate, you know, for months and months and months on and you know, we’re not theory, we’re practice, right? Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 10:16
And you come to us, if you’re going to be a creative, you come to us with a portfolio of work that you’ve done
Don Mock 10:23
stole my thunder, but I love it,
Rob Broadfoot 10:24
yeah, and that’s what we look at. I don’t care where you went to school. If you went to school, it makes no difference to me
Don Mock 10:29
Exactly. I probably pay more attention to where the artistic side of life, Educational Foundation comes from when people are applying for jobs, yeah, I don’t think you really pay I’m I’m making an assumption here, but it’s really more about the portfolio. And like, Hey, is that a good idea? Oh, that’s interesting. Why did they solve you know? And then it’s about vibe. Hey, do you fit in here? Are you a normal person? Can you, can you play with a team and play nicely with others? And then the final hurdle is, is, hey, when we ask you to do something in a specific amount of time, yeah, can you do it, like when you’re doing a trial run here? Can’t can you do things, you know? And by the time you get to that point, it doesn’t matter where you went to college, you know what I mean, it’s, you know, the college is the gateway to a certain and an artistic College is a gateway. To prove to someone like me, who’s a gatekeeper, they’re like, oh, they were taught certain foundational artistic elements, right? But now it’s more important. Can they apply it? If that makes sense, you know.
Rob Broadfoot 11:26
And we’ve also learned that
Don Mock 11:27
I think one of our last copywriters went to SCAD. By the way, we don’t have throw out names but you didn’t even remember that, and you guys worked together every single day because it doesn’t like like, it checks the box at the beginning of the journey, and then you don’t need that anymore. I mean, when was the last time we did a resume?
Rob Broadfoot 11:48
And also we, you know, when you, when we’ve talked about this before, but when you, it’s great that you went to art school and you worked on this project and you did it. But we always talk about how that that world is very, very different in a lot of ways than the real world.
Don Mock 12:07
You mean the utopia,
Rob Broadfoot 12:08
yeah, the utopia of academia is very different than the real world of, oh, I need this done tomorrow. They’re very different.
Don Mock 12:16
Hey I just got a call, and we need this ad by tomorrow.
Rob Broadfoot 12:21
exactly, exactly. So that’s, you know, again, it was an interesting question that was posed to me today. I guess I hadn’t really thought about it in a while, but yeah and you know the answer that he gave, his response was? Oh, thank God.
Don Mock 12:40
I don’t want to throw any university under the bus, but like, I mean, why would you saddle yourself with another 100,000 200,000 worth of, you know, whatever right expenditures without having proven it? And I would say that, you know, I’ve got a pretty large family on one side of the family, and it’s interesting to see as everybody grows up and, you know, no one stays at the first job they ever started at ever, you know. But I think now more than ever, and especially with the advent of covid, you know, and the the ability to work remote, more so than ever, right? There are more people, regardless of artistic industry or not, that are changing industries, right? It isn’t like, oh, I became a doctor and now I’m a doctor. Oh, I’m gonna go do, like, got it, those guys are fine. But, like, you know, if you’re in these weird, general business sort of, you know, you’re over in this side, you’re over and that, like, you’re, you’re flipping around someone. So, like, why not go out and do a bunch of stuff and then figure out, hey, a graduate degree I really want to teach. So the graduate degree is for me,
Rob Broadfoot 13:39
yeah, well, and that was, that was also part of the conversation that we had, because, you know, he was, he was, and I was sort of helping him through this idea that, like, Hey you find what you love doing and what you feel like you’re good at doing, and then go build a career around that.
Don Mock 13:59
Sure, sure, right, the lucky ones do that. Not everybody gets to do that.
Rob Broadfoot 14:06
And it was, you know, and I was saying, yeah, like, my own experience was, I knew I wanted to get into advertising. I didn’t really know anything about it, yeah. And I went in one door and realized that I needed to be on a different floor, you change and figure out where you belong.
Don Mock 14:24
Yeah, totally.
Rob Broadfoot 14:24
So nothing set in stone. Navigate and end up the second and we will, we won’t go down this road today. But the the second question, which is interesting because we were talking about it here in the office this morning, was okay, well, so this particular individual is learning animation, and oh my gosh, the question was, with the rise of AI. Is this going to be an outdated skill? And I was absolutely not. This will not be an outdated skill, and we can debate. Out until the cows come home, AI and its effect on the industry, or impact on the industry, but, but I did assure him that, no, no, this is not, the machines are not going to render that skill set useless,
Don Mock 15:12
not yet or ever.
Rob Broadfoot 15:13
I don’t think it ever will.
Don Mock 15:15
Yeah, I don’t want to take a hard, hard pivot, because that is a different podcast, and Mike and I have talked about AI you and I have talked about, AI, I mean, it’s not going away. We can keep talking about it. And, yeah, it’s another podcast, whatever, but, but yeah, it’s, you know, it is a question that a concerned parent would probably want to ask. You know about their young, impressionable person coming out into this industry. You know for sure.
Rob Broadfoot 15:37
I also told, you know him. Part of my answer to him was, hey, it’s a her, tell your daughter to go find an internship.
Don Mock 15:47
Yeah, totally
Rob Broadfoot 15:47
Just get in the door, somewhere, wherever you get in the door. So anyway, she starts tomorrow. She’d be there.
Don Mock 15:53
That’s fine. I’m okay. I’m okay with that. The more the merrier, because we have tons of time to help train an intern.
Rob Broadfoot 16:01
I’m glad we agree on the answer. I think, I think it makes sense. And it’s always interesting to me to talk to people
Don Mock 16:09
outside of the industry.
Rob Broadfoot 16:10
We’re so in our little bubble with work, when you talk to people outside of our industry that have questions like that, it’s always interesting.
Don Mock 16:19
Well, let’s close the podcast on with what I teased earlier on, the funny story about my neighbor, who, incidentally, we had her as an intern. So, you know it was the same, I don’t want to make assumptions, but the same kind of scenario. Well, wait a minute, we’re a family of this, and then my child doesn’t fit this, you know? And it was, hey, you’re a doctor. Your son’s a doctor. You know, your daughter, uh oh, is suddenly, like, the artistic what’s happening here?
Rob Broadfoot 16:51
There may be a tattoo somewhere
Don Mock 16:52
Yeah it was like I don’t know how to handle this. Like, oh, my God, you know. And are they gonna be able to take care of themselves? And, you know? And that’s what you care about for your kids, you know, hey, can they have a successful participation without your involvement, right? I mean, we’re not gonna be around forever, so, so I’ll never forget this. It was a really funny, funny moment. I’ve told the story to a few people. I don’t think I’ve told on the podcast, but it was, you know, out in the front yard. Hey, chit chatting. But hey, how’s it going? Blah, blah, you know, whatever. And then it was, hey, you know, like, this is going, like, she really wants to go to this art school, and I don’t know what to do, like we’re kind of freaking out, And I looked at him, and I won’t share their names or anything, but looked at him, and I was like, hey, you know, I went to art school
Rob Broadfoot 17:31
You know who you’re talking to right?
Don Mock 17:33
And I’m your neighbor, you know? It was, it was like, hey man, Hey doctor. So it’s like, yeah, I bought the house next to you, you know? And I turned out okay. And it was funny, because it was just to your point about talking to people outside of the industry, it’s like, oh yeah, like, the light bulb went off and was like, oh, wait a minute, they can make it’s like, you know,
Rob Broadfoot 17:54
It’s gonna be okay.
Don Mock 17:55
And he’s a doctor, right? And it’s like, yeah, I bought the house next to you buddy. Like, like, you know, she’s gonna be all right. Like, like, there are best practices and just like you, you have to be good at your job, you know, that type of thing, right? But it was really, really funny. I was like, oh, yeah, it’s gonna be okay. And then, and then, yeah, then She interned over here. Didn’t know anything, which was hilarious, you know, we did the best. There is still the last thing. There’s some work in the office that she did that’s still here, right? And then I think we got the note after she went to art school, and now she’s up in New York, but got the note that was like, Man, I really didn’t know anything when I was there. And thank you. And now I feel like, now I do so much better because of the, you know, that it was really funny so well,
Rob Broadfoot 18:36
I think that’s the general, you know, the sooner you can get in and start doing
Don Mock 18:41
the better. I totally agree.
Rob Broadfoot 18:43
That’s the best education of all, is to get in and just start doing
Don Mock 18:51
And when they’re ready to start doing, where can they find us?
Rob Broadfoot 18:53
Oh, yeah, they can find us. Send all your resumes and applications to Don at www.mocktheagency.com
Don Mock 19:01
Keep them coming, baby. I only get about 12 a day.
Rob Broadfoot 19:03
And if he doesn’t respond to you. I would say, within like, two hours, just resend, send it again.
Don Mock 19:10
Absolutely, absolutely.
Rob Broadfoot 19:12
Of course, you can find us @mocktheagency on any of the socials. We’re not hard to track down. Just look for the two most handsome gentlemen on the internet.
Don Mock 19:21
Yeah absolutely.Thanks, everybody. Bye.
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