Episode Transcript
Don Mock 0:20
Right episode 101 Rob.
Rob Broadfoot 0:22
101 Like the freeway
Don Mock 0:24
Yeah, yeah, that you know What? You know What the 101 is called? the Bay Shore.
Rob Broadfoot 0:29
The Bay Shore.
Don Mock 0:30
Yeah, nobody ever called. Growing up. Nobody called it the 101. It was always called the Bay Shore. You had the 101, the 280 which is actually arguably a better prettier high web 280 is a beautiful highway. Yeah, I don’t know What there’s no advertising along this one stretch from San Francisco down 280 is legit So, but the Bayshore man 101 Yeah. 101 Alright, episode. Is it 101 or is it one on one when it’s one on one?
Rob Broadfoot 0:56
One on one. We should Talk about Dalmatians
Don Mock 1:05
Alright, What? Alright, emergency podcast is What happened now.
Rob Broadfoot 1:08
I got a name for it already.
Don Mock 1:09
Oh, hit me with a name.
Rob Broadfoot 1:11
A Tale of Two Johnsons.
Don Mock 1:14
I love it. I love it. All right, of course. We’re gonna talk about Johnson and Johnson. The logo rebrand shout out to my cousin Sally by the way for bringing this to my attention and she listens to the pod. Sally coming in hot with with a text the other day What do you think of the j&j rebrand you know and I was like oh, let’s let’s take a peek. You know? Sometimes the middle of the day head down you missed the PR you know the press release about what’s what’s going on? Right. So So j&j Johnson Johnson, the famous old established trusty dusty you know, 120 some odd year old medical company.
Rob Broadfoot 1:51
And truth be told. I found out about this rebrand 90 seconds ago.
Don Mock 1:56
I know that’s What makes this podcast fun.
Rob Broadfoot 1:58
So this is true. unfiltered. Off the cuff. read and react. Rob.
Don Mock 2:03
yeah, absolutely. Which I think is good. I think it’ll make for great radio. Alright, so Johnson and Johnson we all anybody of any age knows What that logo looks like right? And I don’t have the press release pulled up in front of me you may have the press release pulled up in front of you right but 100-120 old whatever you know, most recently in the news I think unfortunately probably for getting in some lawsuit issues for asbestos and some of the baby talcum powder and you know, but j&j They got bandaid they got Q tips they got the obviously the most famous like baby shampoo.
Rob Broadfoot 2:37
No tears.
Don Mock 2:39
The yellow bottle, right? We all we all use it as kids and then we all use it on our kids. So John’s, I mean, been around forever. I mean, they do too many things to too many things to list, right? They’ve got the classic red signature s script logo, right. And they rebranded to this very modern very sans serif looking typeface, right with a with a pretty cool ampersand they’ll get a shout out to the ampersand looks pretty bitchin, you know What I mean? But part of the rationale in the rebrand or part of What they put out in the public is that cursive script is not taught in schools anymore. So anybody under the age of 30, right, may not be able to read our logo. Right now. I’m paraphrasing
Rob Broadfoot 3:28
Yeah, that was one of one of the one of the reasons for the rebrand
Don Mock 3:31
But in a world of texting and emojis and all this stuff, you know, like, kids aren’t taught cursive anymore. I feel like my oldest was taught cursive but my the next two have not right. So yeah, cursive is on the way out. I mean, we don’t we don’t write cursive. We don’t write cursive and I agree with does that mean nobody could read the Johnson and Johnson logo? Like I have a hard time believing that
Rob Broadfoot 3:54
Tht’s a bigger question. Do you need to read Johnson and Johnson? Like isn’t the visual identity enough? And so entrenched in the world, that you just recognize the mark.
Don Mock 4:10
I mean, Coca Cola. You don’t grip the typeface. Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 4:14
I mean my first impression. When I look at him. I go, Okay, I go number one. My very first thought was, it looks like a font defaulted.
Don Mock 4:26
That is we’re not off to a good start then that’s a bad way to start.
Rob Broadfoot 4:29
I know. But I mean, it looks like a default. It just looks like a defaulted. I don’t have that font
Don Mock 4:36
Yeah, Adobe Acrobat just freaked out. You know.
Rob Broadfoot 4:40
I hope the rebranding firm isn’t listening to this podcast because I don’t think I’m gonna say very nice things.
Don Mock 4:45
It’s j&j, they’re probably taking their millions and they’re moving along. Yeah, there’s probably a 60 page deck somewhere explaining how amazing this is.
Rob Broadfoot 4:53
that’s the first thing I noticed is it looks like default font but then I noticed soon after that, yes. Okay. They totally pumped up. The ampersand. The ampersand before was not even really an ampersand it was just a squiggle. Yeah, called a squish, which I’m totally okay with. And yeah, so now they bumped up the ampersand and
Don Mock 5:14
you kind of see a little bit of a heart maybe in the ampersand. I mean, they’ve connected it very bizarrely. So, maybe I’m reading anything
Rob Broadfoot 5:23
you see What you want to see. Yeah, you know, but but the ampersand, you know, as a mark is kind of cool. Independent of of the entire the entire mark. But yeah, I don’t know, man. I mean, to me, it’s like, the old logo had so much character
Don Mock 5:39
Character is the word I’ve been waiting for you to say.
Rob Broadfoot 5:41
Yeah. And it just looks like it’s now just devoid of much character. And when you think about when you think of character character, to me, it’s a little cold. It’s a little sterile, sterile, sterile, and I guess sterile you could think of as being positive when it comes to shampoos and and personal hygiene products. That could be a good thing. Sure. But the Johnson and Johnson brand when it comes to personal hygiene products, shampoos and things. You don’t you it’s a very nurturing brand. Yeah, it’s all about parents and no tears and your baby’s warming
Don’t worry about it. We’ve got you covered. We’ve been doing this for 100 years, we know What we’re doing. You know, like, welcome, like, Well, yeah, like, you know, in a time of trauma, like we got your back bandaid, put it on your boo boo, you know, that type of thing.
So, I mean, I don’t you know, and what’s weird too, to me is in thinking about legibility. Johnson and Johnson for me, like, visually, the old logo, like I didn’t, I didn’t even really read Johnson and Johnson anymore. It’s just a mark. Yeah. And you recognize the mark, and it’s trusted. Now you read Johnson and Johnson very clearly. And, kind of I don’t know. It’s just seems weird. All of a sudden.
Don Mock 7:02
Agreed. So my initial reaction was, wow, they skipped a step. Right. I mean, that’s, that’s my initial feedback was okay. We went from call it an illegible script, or a signature or whatever, right? Yeah. Nobody writes. I’ve said it million times on this podcast, but nobody writes F’s like the F’s in Ford that just doesn’t exist anymore. Right. Now, they don’t I mean, they use that as hood ornaments, but they also type out for the million different typefaces. Right, right. So it’s like, yeah, okay, whatever, legibility aside, it has character. It has script. It’s got motion. It’s got thick, thin, it’s got a little bit of a brush quality to it. Right, whatever, right. And it feels like they jumped over the middle step to antiseptic, sterileness, which is where we are now of like, they they could have used an italic typeface, they could have used a brush type face a script typeface, I’m not saying they needed to do that by any stretch, right? But it feels like oh, you still could have had some character and not whimsy. That’s not the right word, right. But some interesting expression or typographic expression in the letter forms versus where we are now, which is like, Oh, I just typed out a default typeface is What it kind of feels like exactly What you know. And there’s this weird shifting, shifting gears really quick. There’s this, that exact same trend has really happened with luxury brands, right, a lot of luxury brands would had which had very traditionally terrible logos, but full of character, like the coach Shen, Saint Laurent and all the different like Balenciaga, like all these you know, there’s a whole bunch of them that have now gone all tracked out your honors space. Yeah, like lowercase or all caps, like, just devoid of character, right? There’s all these, you know, like, like, Ralph Lauren had had a weird, freaky looking thing, you know, and now it’s all born like everyone has trended to this modern sans serif boring and now it’s like this is just kind of doing the same thing
Rob Broadfoot 8:58
it’s bizarre too then if you think about the the typeface I mean, it went from there’s not a single right angle Yeah. Or any edge anywhere on any letter to now it’s like Oh, cool. Every single letter has a hard angle yeah hard edge to it
Don Mock 9:15
no softness to it. Yeah, it doesn’t scream no more tears. You know? It does scream medical. Yeah, it screams I’m in the hospital. And I supply hospitals with billions of dollars worth of stuff.
Rob Broadfoot 9:28
Yeah. Definitely screams medicinal
Don Mock 9:31
but it doesn’t feel very like consumer doesn’t feel like that’s in a tube that you squirt on your cut. You know What I mean?. I mean, I know Neosporin is not not there. Yeah, but you know, but like, it doesn’t feel soft and home health care if that makes sense. They kept the red though. Right?
Rob Broadfoot 9:47
I was just gonna say they kept the red.
Don Mock 9:49
Yeah. Which if anything, red is such a taboo place to plan for for you know, health care, right? Yeah, it is sanguine. It is the color of our blood. Most people stay away from that. You got the Red Cross. That’s it. Like there really aren’t any other health care brands that are that really leaning into the red. Right. So I think it’s cool. They kept the red
Rob Broadfoot 10:10
I think It’s cool. They honored the red. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Don Mock 10:13
I mean, that would have been insane if they went like salmon with i, electric green or purpl. Yeah
Rob Broadfoot 10:21
I wonder What else they say in the in the press release about the the why the justification?
Don Mock 10:28
I don’t have it in front of me. So you know, but I mean, it’s really just, you know, hey, it’s been you know, it’s never really changed in 100. And I think it’s 126 years. And so hey, it’s time to time to update.
Rob Broadfoot 10:39
Yeah you used to have all these like, I mean, to your point, like, the luxury brands, everybody else, logos, and it used to be ornate And fun. Yeah. Now they’re boring and stupid. No, I’m kidding. But they did. They used to be ornate. And yeah, a little more free flowing and organic. And now you’re right. There’s this trend to just
Don Mock 11:00
it’s like the brief is if it doesn’t fit in an avatar circle 500 pixel circle for your Facebook account. It’s like it’s not successful anymore, which I call BS on that. But I’ll be very curious to see how this has rolled out in regards to like a J&J ligature, and other utilizations of it. Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 11:18
And then they did leave the same structure and then it’s the nice horizontal to name they didn’t stack it, they didn’t do anything, you know. Yeah. All they changed was the typeface.
Don Mock 11:29
I think also too, it seems like and I might be reading a little bit of tea leaves here but it seems like they want to go a little bit more Procter and Gamble with it where it’s really more on the back of the Crest toothpaste, you don’t even really notice it and who cares. It’s like the unilevel right versus leading with it like I’m pretty certain we’re gonna see you know, boxes of Q tips that you don’t even see a j&j logo really on there at all. Yeah, you don’t. I mean, it might be down there and the legal mouse type on the back or, like, you know, you’re gonna have bandaid it’s, they’re gonna lead with the brand. And they’re not going to lead with j&j anymore. And I don’t know why that would be. But you know, brand hierarchy, or maybe it has to do with lawsuits. I mean, I have no idea. So yeah,
Rob Broadfoot 12:05
and also to it’s, it’ll be interesting to see What happens. I mean, we’ve talked about it before, but we’ve seen backlash. We’ve seen rebrand backlash, GAP, and the some of the newer ones we’ve talked about before. Yeah, it’ll be interesting to see if this one
Don Mock 12:19
but does j&j have a following? That’s going to freak out about their you know, I don’t know, unlike the, the GAP or like, Abercrombie and, you know, that’s like personal expression. Like I’m wearing this stuff out loud and proud out of out of that.
Rob Broadfoot 12:32
Yes, is it a fashion brand.
Don Mock 12:37
bandaids like, Yeah, is it clear? Is it colored? Is it a pattern on there? Who cares? Like just cover up my wound So I stopped banging my busted finger, you know, that type of thing? I mean, I don’t know I don’t foresee it being honestly that big of a deal from a consumer perspective.
Rob Broadfoot 12:53
Here’s a little bit of interesting insight. Yeah, just pulled up. Well, I’m on j&j site, actually, and one of the things you say right on the homepage as a part of our company’s evolution. We’re updating our branding and uniting our innovative medicine and med tech businesses under the Johnson and Johnson name to demonstrate our collective power in health care. Yeah. So I think to your point, they’re going medical, medical, medical, medical,
Don Mock 13:19
Both blending b2b and b2c just kind of altogether.
Rob Broadfoot 13:23
Which we’ll talk about that
Don Mock 13:25
Foreshadowing another episode. I wasn’t sure if you’re gonna take that bait or not. Yeah, you took it.
I took it and ran with it. I swallowed like a Culprit worm.
Oh my Lord. That sounds probably dirtier than it really is.
Rob Broadfoot 13:40
It’s not it’s a plastic lured? But you know
Don Mock 13:40
Okay. So we’re leaning into just the whole homogenized healthcare,
Rob Broadfoot 13:51
Yeah, we’re going medical we’re going to healthcare, last sentence, our refreshed identity reflects boldness that conveys our ability to tackle the world’s toughest health challenges while staying true to our heritage of care and humanity.
Don Mock 14:05
I don’t agree with that. That’s my first impression on that like, the logo is not bold, as by your initial impression.
Rob Broadfoot 14:14
I mean, but it does go with healthcare and it does go medicinal. Stelf care. Stelf care what is that?
Don Mock 14:23
That sounds cool. Stelf Care. I feel like we need to know something about that. I’m going to write that down.
Rob Broadfoot 14:33
Yeah. So I think
Don Mock 14:36
Press release Malarkey, I mean, I get it it was hey, we’re you know, we’re gonna dump the illegible script we’re going to lean in to healthcare mission accomplished they did What they’re What they’re saying they’re doing I don’t know that it’s bold and this and that and whatever.
Rob Broadfoot 14:48
I mean, look at the visuals on their homepage, now it’s all it’s all images of of surgeries. Yeah, medicine. So they’re absolutely going that way. So if I think if you if you you know when you when you Hear the business justification for doing What they did? Okay. I understand that. When you take it from a purely aesthetic point of view, I don’t like where
Don Mock 15:12
It’s boring.
Rob Broadfoot 15:13
It just feels super safe. Yeah. And they can be safe. To your point. No one’s gonna flip out.
Don Mock 15:20
but nobody like. And again, I’ve used this before this. It’s funny because I always use j&j as an example, explaining branding to people and things like that, right. You don’t buy j&j, you don’t buy that you buy Q tips, you buy a bandaids, you know, you buy the other, you know, so I mean, from a consumer perspective, when you go to CVS, you’re still gonna have, you know, all of your consumer brands, I mean, he’s gonna have all your stuff. It’s just gonna be endorsed by Johnson and Johnson on the back, right? And then yeah, they’re leaning into sales and whatever else from a hospital procurement perspective, and things like that. So but, you know, I let you know, I mean, I like being a little left of center, a little right of center and being a little quirky and standing out a little bit, you know, and not necessarily just homogenized right in the middle with everybody else. And that’s kind of feels like What they’ve done.
Rob Broadfoot 16:10
something tells me the J&J board does not agree. You know, this is this to me, seems I can, who knows, but probably a prime example of committee. Designed by committee. Okay, Paul, we won’t change the color. Susan. fine find we’ll go with this type. I mean, you can see how there were a lot of people that
Don Mock 16:35
we’ve been in those meetings where there’s 16 people in there, and all they care about is What does it look like on my polo? Right, you know, right. How, What does it look like on my golf shirt? Or my, my quarters app? Yep. You know, is it gonna embroider okay, you know, I mean, embroidery samples is an important
Rob Broadfoot 16:50
generally speaking, the more people involved in the decision, the more conservative. Take that however you want, the more conservative The end result is
Don Mock 17:04
Yeah, agree.
Rob Broadfoot 17:05
Less risky. The more safe. No one’s gonna lose their job. Everybody’s good.
Don Mock 17:12
I mean, agreed. But it’s, it’s, you know, I don’t know how to say this eloquently. But there’s, you know, like, if you were starting Coca Cola today, would you use that logo for Coca Cola? Probably not. Right?
Rob Broadfoot 17:26
No, absolutely not.
Don Mock 17:27
Right. I mean, but But What makes it cool is the legacy the heritage heritage that came from how it came for, you know, and, you know, so these old fashion brands that have been around for 100 years Ivory soap, you know, like, yeah, you know, these old weird, quirky brands that have these strange logos for I mean, just stuff you know, like, that’s What makes it cool. That’s Americana or whatever, however, you want to categorize it and then when you just kind of Yeah, modernize it and homogenized like I don’t know keep saying the same thing over and over again, but like it just kind of becomes devoid of personality and you
Rob Broadfoot 17:59
lose you know, lose the hair, you lose the heritage
Don Mock 18:02
what they should have done They should have split it where Johnson was one business unit. And then JOHNSON is the other business.
Rob Broadfoot 18:11
Well.
Don Mock 18:13
Alright, anyway, emergency pod. This one’s for you, Sally. So shout out drop us a review. drop us a note. I need to hear from you on What you thought of the pod.
Rob Broadfoot 18:21
Yeah, I’m gonna go home and immediately throw out all of my Johnson and Johnson
Don Mock 18:25
Yeah you need to put it on the barbecue and let it on fire like sports jerseys or whatever flip out about things.
Rob Broadfoot 18:31
Jack Daniels guy. That’s another great classic logo. Actually. Jack Daniels.
Don Mock 18:35
Yeah, fantastic logo.
Rob Broadfoot 18:36
Yeah, didn’t they went woke or something. And some guy got mad and burned all of his Jack Daniels stuff.
Don Mock 18:41
I have no idea. I can’t keep up with What everybody’s angry about. Did somebody burn all their Jack Daniels?
Rob Broadfoot 18:48
What did they do? They did something and some there was some guy who was like, I’m the world’s biggest Jack Daniels collector, But I mean, he you know, so he’s some YouTube video and he’s out and literally built like a fire and yeah, Here’s my $300 bottle of special reserve that I’m pouring out. Here’s my dartboard that yeah, you know.
Don Mock 19:12
Okay. Anyway, people gotta be angry about something. We’re not angry, but if you’re angry, let us know how angry you are by leaving us a review where Mr. Rob
Rob Broadfoot 19:22
Well you can find us on your internet connection at www.mocktheagency.com.
Don Mock 19:30
Wow, full dub dub dub. I like it.
Rob Broadfoot 19:33
Yeah. And or on the socials @mocktheagency we’re not hard to find.
Don Mock 19:40
We’re out and about. We’re everywhere. All right. Thanks, everybody.
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