Episode Transcript
Don Mock 0:19
Episode 22 We’re back, Rob.
Rob Broadfoot 0:22
We’re back. Yeah.
Don Mock 0:23
How are we feeling today?
Rob Broadfoot 0:26
I feel pretty good today.
Don Mock 0:27
Good. Well, all right, since you’re gonna be doing a majority of the talking on today’s podcast, surprise! I’m just kidding. I thought it might be interesting today, we’ve done a couple podcasts that are really directional. We had Mr. C sit and talk about design and things like that. I thought we might flip the script and talk about the magical world of letters.
Rob Broadfoot 0:45
We have 26 of them.
Don Mock 0:46
Yeah, messaging, right? And specifically drilling down to taglines. Taglines, cut lines, whatever we want to call them. Is there a difference between a tag line and a cut line? You know, what do we think about them? How do we feel about them? What’s good, what’s bad? The differences? Maybe we can educate people on the differences between different types of taglines, stylistic approaches to taglines, if you will, you know. I’ve got my thoughts on the matter, but I figured I’d throw it out to you first, you know.
Rob Broadfoot 1:12
Ya no, I think when we start to think about taglines, there’s two paths that come to mind. Right?
Don Mock 1:22
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 1:22
There’s the, and we were talking about this a second ago, but sort of the aspirational kind of tagline. And then there’s the more descriptive tagline.
Don Mock 1:29
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 1:30
And so what makes sense, when, why and how?
Don Mock 1:34
Exactly.
Rob Broadfoot 1:36
So a couple of ones came to mind. I’ll give you an example from both of those paths that I think work really well. Of course, Nike, it’s easy to pick on those guys. “Just do it.”
Don Mock 1:46
Sure.
Rob Broadfoot 1:47
We’re just gonna do it. They’ve earned the right to be able to have the most aspirational tagline.
Don Mock 1:53
Absolutely.
Rob Broadfoot 1:53
And what’s great about that is it’s a call to action. And they started off as a running shoe.
Don Mock 2:00
Yeah, exactly.
Rob Broadfoot 2:01
But now they’ve got apparel and licensing and athletes, and they’ve got everything. And so they’ve got three words that work for everything.
Don Mock 2:11
Yes, exactly.
Rob Broadfoot 2:12
Regardless of what it is.
Don Mock 2:13
I think they they’ve transcended and this happened a long time ago, but more into selling the competition of sport than selling actual sporting goods.
Rob Broadfoot 2:23
Right.
Don Mock 2:24
Of course, you can buy tennis shoes, windbreakers, socks, jeans, jerseys, not jeans, but jerseys, and all sorts of anything to compete athletically dare I say, right? But it’s really more selling the competition of sport.
Rob Broadfoot 2:39
It’s the attitude.
Don Mock 2:39
Yeah, and I think “just do it” gives you that motivation. I do like that you pointed out that it is a call to action. You know, to do the eminent, it is an active line, which I think is pretty cool.
Rob Broadfoot 2:50
It’s not just buy it.
Don Mock 2:51
Yeah. Yeah. Or it’s not Nike, you know, we make shoes, you know, we make other stuff too.
Rob Broadfoot 2:58
Yeah, the growling that low rumbling you hear in the background? Is our dog Lou. Yeah.
Don Mock 3:05
She feels good about running.
Rob Broadfoot 3:07
I think so. She’s runner.
Don Mock 3:08
Yeah, and she doesn’t need any athletic gear to run. So.
Rob Broadfoot 3:12
Um, so I think that’s a great one. And I think it’s, you know, you boil it down to the simplicity of the three word, “just do it.” It is the most almost ambiguous, out of context, call to action, “just do it.” But then you frame it up under Nike, and it becomes very powerful thing.
Don Mock 3:30
Yeah, it’s interesting. I guess I never really thought about it that way. That it is kind of nebulous, doing it, you know? But I think it doesn’t really matter. It implies that whoever is using their gear can do whatever they want, right? I mean, that’s kind of what they’re going for.
Rob Broadfoot 3:41
Yeah, it kind of allows you to own it, whether you’re a
Paralympic athlete or a swimmer or a, you know, whatever it is.
Don Mock 3:48
Sure, sure.
Rob Broadfoot 3:49
So it works really well. By contrast for me, if you think about descriptive taglines, probably my favorite example is Geico. And I would say because that is 15 Minutes or Less can save you 15% or more on car insurance.
Don Mock 4:05
It’s a mouthful, that one.
Rob Broadfoot 4:06
It’s a mouthful. And is it a tagline? It is. It’s kind of a headline that sort of become a tagline for them. To me, wow! It’s amazingly smart because it tells you what they do. And they haven’t really evolved from a business standpoint, meaning no, we’re sticking with that. That’s a quick phone call. We’re gonna save you money on car insurance. We tell you exactly what we’re doing. But what that does to me is it grounds you in exactly what they do. And that allows them to have crazy lizards.
Don Mock 4:40
Yeah, they had caveman and sorts of different things.
Rob Broadfoot 4:42
Caveman and like the gecko and like it’s crazy.
Don Mock 4:46
Yeah, exactly. Who would have thought that accompany that originated I believe is a Government Employees Insurance cooperative. I think that’s right. Is the origin of Geico.
Rob Broadfoot 4:56
Yeah, right.
Don Mock 4:57
Specific to government employee but now obviously not, right? So it kind of makes sense to go for the Geico Gecko, you know, bring that together the alliteration, right? LiMu Emu ad for Liberty Mutual.
Rob Broadfoot 5:10
No, I hate, I hate the Emu.
Don Mock 5:11
You can’t stand you can’t stand the Emu?
Rob Broadfoot 5:12
I can’t stand it.
Don Mock 5:13
Done with the Emu.
Rob Broadfoot 5:14
I don’t like it.
Don Mock 5:15
But, you know, hey, we’re dumb Americans and we like the alliteration.
Rob Broadfoot 5:18
We’re not all dumb. We’re not all dumb.
Don Mock 5:19
That’s true, that’s true.
Rob Broadfoot 5:20
I don’t like that one. But, um…
Don Mock 5:23
But Geico, because it’s..
Rob Broadfoot 5:23
But what’s so interesting about that is because the tagline anchors exactly what they do.
Don Mock 5:28
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 5:29
From a creative standpoint, they’re allowed to do anything. I mean, it all their spots are ridiculous, and over the top.
Don Mock 5:37
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 5:37
Yet at the end of the spot, it’s anchored in
Don Mock 5:40
Yeah, 15 minutes or less.
Rob Broadfoot 5:41
They are very direct. And here’s exactly what we do, which I think is cool. I think BMW we’ve talked about.
Don Mock 5:47
Yeah, I’m a fan of BMW, I mean, “the ultimate driving machine.” Right?
Rob Broadfoot 5:50
Mmhmm.
Don Mock 5:50
It’s pretty clear what they do.
Rob Broadfoot 5:53
Yeah.
Don Mock 5:54
I mean, it’s like you drive a machine and it’s the best of breed in regards to a machine. So, you know, I always prefer things like that. A lot of clients we work with and a lot of sort of startups and whatnot. I do lean more towards the definition taglines, right, and sort of helping to explain and support what the brand is if you don’t have brand acknowledgement, right? And you’re not running commercials like GEICO for example.
Rob Broadfoot 6:17
Right.
Don Mock 6:18
There is a place to be said for you know, as we’re joking off air, you know, large Coca Colas of the world don’t need a definitional tagline. They can go with the aspirational tagline, because it’s kind of the feeling and the emotion you get from using the product.
Rob Broadfoot 6:32
Well everybody knows. I mean, yeah.
Don Mock 6:33
Everyone knows what Coke is.
Rob Broadfoot 6:34
But BMW is interesting, because it kind of falls in the middle because everybody knows what BMW is and does anyway. But they’ve constructed this line, “the ultimate driving machine,” it tells you it’s a car. But, it says it in a super sexy way.
Well, it could be a motorcycle right?
It’s ultra developed. Okay, fair enough. Fair enough. But it tells you, it’s some sort of vehicle to get you from here to there, you’re probably familiar with the cars or the motorcycles or whatever. But it says it in such a way that it’s not unlike Geico, where it’s 15 minutes. It’s super direct. It’s saying it in a really sexy way, “the ultimate driving machine.” You put the right voiceover behind it, and it’s a good one.
Don Mock 7:18
Southwest was another one I used to love. You know, because they had the audio mnemonic that went with their advertising to where they had the like the ding. You know, like the ding from inside the cabin, or whatever.
Rob Broadfoot 7:30
The sea belt?
Don Mock 7:30
The seatbelt light or whatever, you know, and the “you’re now free to move about the country.” I thought it was interesting that their entire business model was about being a low fare, airline carrier, right? To the point where you kind of pick your own seats, they got their own weird vibe, right?
It was a super casual. Flying is gonna be fun.
Exactly.
Rob Broadfoot 7:48
Not a formal experience.
Don Mock 7:50
Yeah, it’s we’ve moved past only business people can afford to travel around to a true democratization of travel right for anybody. It’s affordable now for anybody. And so there was something interesting about “you’re now free to move about the country.” I thought that really helped differentiate them from like, a united back in the day, right? Which was very specific, hey, I’m a business traveler, I’m flying united, you know, that type of thing. So whether that’s good, bad or not for customer service, or for airlines in general, that may be another conversation for another day. But I think from a positioning perspective, that seemed to make a lot of sense when they launched that.
Rob Broadfoot 8:26
That to me is one of those examples of great advertising.
Don Mock 8:31
Yeah, well, they’ve been having some problems recently.
Rob Broadfoot 8:34
Well, and not just recently, but do you feel like they abandon that tagline too early? Because you don’t hear it anymore?
Don Mock 8:40
Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, they transitioned to something about sharing love, I think, right? It was love in the sky, or I don’t know what it is. I feel like a dumb dumb not knowing it. But that was a good one. Maybe they should have stuck with that. You know, clients sometimes do sour on great work before the public sours. Because we and them are living with it for so much longer than the public is right? Because we’re developing it. You know, it’s all internal, you’re working on something for months and months and months before it gets out the door. And so sometimes, maybe, to your point, maybe they should have stuck with it instead of let it move into some different obscure tagline, right? I don’t know?
Rob Broadfoot 9:22
Who knows why, and a lot of times these things happen. I mean, it can can be 1000 different reasons.
Don Mock 9:27
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 9:28
One could be oh, there’s a new CMO.
Don Mock 9:30
Yeah exactly.
Rob Broadfoot 9:31
And they want to change things just to change things. Put their stamp on it. I mean, there’s a million different reasons. But, I tend to agree. I think “you’re now free to move about the country” was a great tagline. I feel like they should have stuck with that.
Don Mock 9:44
Yeah, yeah, I don’t disagree. Well, as evidenced by the fact that we are in the industry, and we consume advertising every day, right? I don’t know what the current tagline is, right?
Right, right.
So fascinating to think about. Any other thoughts about crafting taglines or cut lines or helping to sort of brand, clients dare I say. Any pitfalls? Anything stay away from any sort of just, I don’t know, random thoughts?
Rob Broadfoot 10:12
I don’t know it’s a difficult exercise when you do that. Because at the end of the day, the ones that are the most effective, generally speaking are, um…
Don Mock 10:23
Shorter?
Rob Broadfoot 10:24
Well, I mean, not according to Geico. It just kind of depends on what’s right. So I don’t know that there’s really a formula for landing one. I mean, you definitely don’t want to do anything that is going to be limited in terms of timing, or anything that’s that’s just going to be a sort of a passing fad. I remember back when was it? I think it was Wrangler. “Real. Comfortable. Jeans.”
“Real. Comfortable. Jeans.”
And we went through this stupid phase.
Don Mock 10:55
Period, period, period.
Rob Broadfoot 10:56
Where we have to put a period at the end of every word. Because some copywriter somewhere and good on him.
Don Mock 11:01
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 11:01
Launched a fad where we’re going to do one word and then a period since… And I can hear them selling that in the meeting. “Real. Comfortable Jeans.”
Don Mock 11:12
Yeah. Do you even need the jeans at the end? I don’t know that you do?
Rob Broadfoot 11:15
Well, it depends if you’re from your school of thought, you like the idea that it’s direct.
Ya it tells me what it is.
Here’s exactly what we make and do.
Don Mock 11:24
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 11:25
One might argue Wrangler. People know that make jeans so I don’t know.
Don Mock 11:29
For sure, for sure. To your point. It’s funny. I was sitting here thinking like the challenge of trying to define something with the shortest amount of words possible. Right. That’s catchy. That’s hooky. That that explains it, right? Versus the example of GEICO, right? I am also reminded of VW’s great old tagline, right? That was, “on the road of life there are drivers and their passengers.”
Rob Broadfoot 11:54
Yeah, right.
Don Mock 11:55
It was kind of that position of well, which one are you? I mean, if you’re a driver, you need to drive VWs. Right? So that’s a mouthful, too. But, um…
Rob Broadfoot 12:04
To me, that line always worked better as a campaign line and not a tagline.
Don Mock 12:09
Really?
Rob Broadfoot 12:10
Yeah. Because it seems like it’s an idea.
Don Mock 12:14
But it’s not final execution.
Rob Broadfoot 12:16
It’s not broad enough that it can hold up for decades and decades and decades. It’s a great campaign idea.
Don Mock 12:25
Well, I think that again, the show note, perhaps was was not done for this one. But I feel like that one wasn’t that far away from Fahrvergnugen. And we’re old enough to remember Fahrvergnugen. Right I mean, VW has been through a fair amount of taglines, right?
Rob Broadfoot 12:41
And their advertising is always great. It’s always pretty solid.
Don Mock 12:44
For sure, for sure. Don’t talk to them about their diesel problems, but their advertising is good. So I think, you know, coming out of something wacky and zany like Fahrvergnugen. And then going into hey, you know, we’re an excellent positioned car company, right? Like our cars are fun to drive. They’re efficient. They say all the good stuff right? It’s kind of an interesting approach.
Rob Broadfoot 13:04
Okay. But was Fahrvergnugen a campaign or tagline?
Don Mock 13:09
I don’t really know the answer to that one, to be honest.
Rob Broadfoot 13:12
To me it feels like a campaign.
Don Mock 13:14
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 13:15
It feels like that was a campaign for them.
Don Mock 13:17
Well, I mean, it ran for a little while.
Rob Broadfoot 13:20
Yeah, for a long time.
Don Mock 13:21
Yeah. And then they said hey it’s time to scrap it and move on. I don’t think their sales were were doing very well at that time, right? But but this was pre bug redo. I think VW from a product perspective. They were in a little bit of a transition zone too.
Rob Broadfoot 13:36
But if you think about the taglines that, are the most effective, you know, the ones that we’ve talked about, just do it “15 minutes or less” and “the ultimate driving machine.” Regardless of campaign. They stay.
Don Mock 13:49
Absolutely.
Rob Broadfoot 13:49
That’s always the foundation and those don’t change.
Don Mock 13:53
Good point.
Rob Broadfoot 13:53
That’s when you know that you’ve hit it, right?
Don Mock 13:57
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 13:58
Is when it doesn’t matter what the campaign execution can be. That’s always at the end of the day, kind of the anchor.
Don Mock 14:03
Yeah, for sure. And it’s not a fad. It’s not a passing fad, or fashionable, right? Or maybe so descriptive that the business has changed and outgrown it.
Rob Broadfoot 14:13
Right.
Don Mock 14:13
Potentially, I don’t know. So it’s something interesting. All right.
Rob Broadfoot 14:16
It’s not an easy thing to do. At the end of the day, it sounds easy, because it seems like oh, it’s three words or eight words or whatever it is. But to do that really well. It’s a difficult thing.
Don Mock 14:27
It is. Yeah, for sure. All right.
Rob Broadfoot 14:30
What would your tagline be?
Don Mock 14:32
For me as a brand?
Rob Broadfoot 14:35
For you as a person, as a brand. What would your tagline be?
Don Mock 14:39
Oh my god…
Rob Broadfoot 14:39
Wow. Talk about putting the graphic designer on the spot.
Don Mock 14:44
I think as of right now because of how much flack I’ve been getting. I think it would be, “dare I say.” I think that’s what my tagline would be.
Rob Broadfoot 14:51
That is actually a pretty good, that’s pretty good.
Don Mock 14:54
Again, put it on a t-shirt. You know, I don’t know that’s, it’s hard. I’m an international man of mystery. So I think it’s hard to really put one tagline around all the different interests and, you know, things that I bring to the party.
Rob Broadfoot 15:09
Right.
Don Mock 15:09
But as of right now, I’d say “dare I say.” What was it? We used to say. Neither one of us is gonna remember this right now. But when we were at the old space, we had a previous employee who used to say that the title of my autobiography was going to be something and I can’t remember what it was. I kept saying the phrase over and over and over again. It was a catchphrase. Was it “here’s the deal?” It might have been here’s the deal.
Rob Broadfoot 15:33
Here’s the deal.?
Don Mock 15:33
Here’s the deal. All right.
Rob Broadfoot 15:35
I don’t feel like that’s it.
Don Mock 15:37
Is ringing a bell at all, or probably not? But it was something like, oh, I didn’t even notice that I used to say this all the time.
Rob Broadfoot 15:45
I don’t remember here’s the deal.
Don Mock 15:45
Here’s the deal. So yeah, for the people that know me, it’s probably either “dare I say” or “here’s the deal” as of right now. What about your tagline? Your personal tagline?
Rob Broadfoot 15:56
Gosh, I don’t know. Haha. This is one of the file this under doctors are the worst patients?
Don Mock 16:01
Yeah, for sure. For sure. That’s hard. Having to start thinking about it.
Rob Broadfoot 16:04
I was told on this podcast, that I say, “hey, everybody.”
Don Mock 16:07
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 16:07
“Hey, everybody.” But no, that’s not my tagline.
Don Mock 16:11
You’re not that friendly.
Rob Broadfoot 16:14
Uhhh…
Don Mock 16:14
I’m just kidding, I’m just kidding. Well, I think maybe this is a call to action for people to drop their taglines.
Rob Broadfoot 16:19
Yeah.
Don Mock 16:20
In reviews or send us an email.
Rob Broadfoot 16:20
Or based on what you’ve learned about us. Suggest taglines for either one of us. That would be a fun exercise. And maybe we’ll do another one and come back and say, hey, we’ll do some brainstorming and figure it out. I’m going to write your tagline, your going to write mine. That’s what we’re gonna do.
Don Mock 16:36
Oh, boy. Okay, that could be fun.
Rob Broadfoot 16:37
We’re gonna do that.
Don Mock 16:38
Mine is going to be a joke about commas. I feel like a common joke in there. All right.
Rob Broadfoot 16:43
All right. Very good. Taglines. Love it you guys can find us on the interwebs of course at mocktheagency.com or on the socials @mocktheagency. And yeah, drop us some feedback. We’d love to hear what you think what we can do better.
Don Mock 16:57
Absolutely.
Rob Broadfoot 16:58
What we do awesome. All those things.
Don Mock 17:00
Yeah, only good feedback.
Rob Broadfoot 17:01
Please play us out Mr C.
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