Episode Transcript
Don Mock 0:20
Alright, Episode 109. Rob, we’re back.
Yeah, we’re back episode 109. I can’t think of any we always joke about at the top of the podcast What the numbers mean to us. I got nothing for 109 I think it’s 409 the cleaning solution but
Alright 109, I got an idea for us to discuss today. And you don’t know What that idea is It’s a secret. So you’re coming in blind on this one, which is exciting.
Rob Broadfoot 0:46
Is it a trick or a treat?
Don Mock 0:47
It’s both and I see What you did there. Considering today. Do you ever play that game with kids when they come to the door? And when they say trick or treat and you’re like, Alright, give me give me a trick instead, you know, like to call them on it, call it call their bluff? No,
Rob Broadfoot 1:01
no. That’s pretty good, though.
Don Mock 1:04
I don’t even think kids would know What you’re talking about.
Rob Broadfoot 1:06
No, They would just awkwardly stare at you. Yeah.
Don Mock 1:09
All right. Here’s today’s topic, I thought would be kind of interesting for us to chat about. As a lot of the listeners know, we manage social media accounts for clients. Right? And the big news in the world today or not today, but this past week, or whatever is meta. Our friends Meta who own their own, like, you know, 1/4 of the internet, right? Facebook and Instagram and whatnot. have decided in Europe to test an ad free subscription based model. Have you heard of this? Okay. So Here’s What they’re doing. They are doing okay. You can subscribe, subscribe to meta and for 9,99 a month on desktop, or 12,99 a month on mobile. So it’s price premium for mobile. You can enjoy the magical world of Facebook and Instagram, ad free. No ads. Now, murky waters, as far as boosting posts and sponsors, like What exactly does ad free kind of? I’m not 100% sure yet. Right. Right. But, you know, advertising makes the world go round. Right. I mean, we’ve had advertising and sponsorships since the beginning of radio and television. Right? From a media perspective, right. You know, streaming, hey, we’re gonna cut the cord. We’re cutting our cord of our cable companies, right? So I can go direct to the content providers, right? Oh, wait a minute. Oh, suddenly, now there’s at you know, like, advertising has a magical way of weaseling its way back in but then also being this vilified enemy on? Well, I mean, yeah. Why would you want to pay for average? You know, I mean, like, pay us more. So you don’t have to have ads. Right. So
Rob Broadfoot 2:54
you also used to have, because remember, there was that whole hullabaloo about the influencer posts? And now we have to, you got to say it’s a you got to say it’s an ad. It hasn’t got to get in hot water for all that stuff
Don Mock 3:06
Yeah, it has to be considered sponsored. Right. You’re you’re paying someone
Rob Broadfoot 3:11
You are aknowledged.
Don Mock 3:11
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Right. So you know, What do you think? I guess, what’s your initial impression? What’s your thoughts on hey, I mean, we manage advertising accounts online for clients, right? So hey, wait a minute. Wait a second here. All of a sudden, we’re paying to not have to see us, you know, that type of thing?
Rob Broadfoot 3:28
Well A, I’m not surprised at all. B, I don’t have a problem with it. C, it’s just like Hulu or any others, you know, streaming service where Okay, you can pay the free version Or you can pay the premium version to not have ads. And I’m totally fine with that.
Don Mock 3:46
Facebook’s a weird one though, man. People feel like they own their Facebook. You know, I mean, it is a free service. I mean, no one has paid. You don’t have to pay to create a Facebook account whether you are a person or a business, right? Yet it’s oh my god, they’re touching my Facebook, they’re, you know, it’s like, whoa, wait a minute, you’re, you’re not even a subscriber because you’re not even paying anything. Right.
Rob Broadfoot 4:08
You know, right. But I mean, you know, I understand where they’re going this because now more than ever, it is just inundated, inundated, inundated so
Don Mock 4:17
Well all anybody wants is a timeline or a feed, whatever you wanna call it, your wall, your timeline, feed in a chronological order. But none of the social media companies will do that. It’s not up for debate. It’s never going to happen again. Right? When Twitter first started, it was okay. And when Facebook first started, you saw everything of all the things you liked or subscribe to, and they were all running in a chronological order, right? That will never happen again.
Rob Broadfoot 4:45
Maybe I’m an outlier, but I don’t care about that.
Don Mock 4:48
Really? Okay.
Rob Broadfoot 4:49
I never think about that.
Don Mock 4:51
Okay, but you like, pick a fishing brand. Okay. You like Rapala right? You subscribe to their pay or not subscribe but you like and follow their page, right? You only see two out of every 10 posts that they post because of the Facebook algorithm. It’s a metric and a method for brands to force, you know, you have to boost and, and you have to pay to play, right? I mean, media is not free anymore, if that makes sense, right? Especially once Facebook years ago, you know, had their IPO and, you know, became a gigantic media company, right. So even though you’re a fan and you like them, you don’t see their posts. And that’s because Facebook has decided that you can’t see their posts, you know. So I don’t know. I mean, personally,
Rob Broadfoot 5:37
I don’t ever think about that.
Don Mock 5:39
But I, Here’s What I want. Like, if I am choosing to subscribe to a certain company, right. I’m interested, I want to see What they have to offer. Right. That’s why I follow certain brands. Right. So, you know, anyway, I think it’s interesting that, you know, there, you don’t see anything, right. And then, you know, especially as the advertising model picked up, you know, took off, and that’s how they make their money. Right is meta or whatever. And their profits are absolutely out of control. Yeah, I mean, they’re up like 23% this last quarter. I mean,
Rob Broadfoot 6:12
Everybody except for x.
Don Mock 6:13
Yeah, they make like 30 or $40 billion a quarter their expenses are down. Because once yeah, as you mentioned, once X cut their entire workforce, Oh, guess What everybody else cut their workforce too So whether they needed to or not, you know, there’s like up to 10,000 people out of Microsoft, 10,000 people over here. 10,000 people over that, right. So boom, you know, costs are down user base, and everything’s still rocking and rolling. Right. But it’s interesting that always picking on advertising, these social media companies, you know, as a source of they need the revenue. That’s how they make money. And that’s how Twitter isn’t making any money advertisers left. They’re all gone. You know, not that Twitter was ever cashflow positive in the first place. So but advertising is this vilified weird Boogeyman. We need it. We make all our money from it. Right? I mean, that’s that’s how they make their money. yet. Hey, pay to not have it.
Rob Broadfoot 7:05
Well, you’re either gonna pay us to have it or pay us to not have it. They win.
Don Mock 7:10
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Meta and and Google pretty much on the internet, but
Rob Broadfoot 7:16
I don’t want to sound like an idiot. But back to the like chronological posting. Okay, so an interesting use the word subscribe. Yeah. Because not really subscribing because it’s free, it’s a follow.
Don Mock 7:27
correct. Correct. I’ve got a next part of this. So
Rob Broadfoot 7:31
if I follow Rapala, go down that road, so if I follow Rapala, What you’re suggesting is that in my feed, which is a conglomeration of all the other things that I follow
Don Mock 7:43
It’s an algorithm of What they think you want to see
Rob Broadfoot 7:47
Or the things that I have selected to..But What you’re saying is, I don’t get to see everything that Rapala has posted, unless I go to their page,
Don Mock 7:59
Unless you go to their account. Correct, correct,
but in your feed, you won’t see all of their posts, and you certainly won’t see it in any type of chronological order.
Rob Broadfoot 8:09
Right, right.
Don Mock 8:10
So if they did a countdown 54321 You’re not going to see 54321 And you’re not going to see it when they post it because the algorithm is deciding other other metrics.
Rob Broadfoot 8:22
Yeah, again, I’ve never thought about that. And even when you say it
Don Mock 8:28
It drives me crazy.
Rob Broadfoot 8:28
Even when you say it, I don’t really, because I just assumed that if I want to go see everything that they’ve posted,
Don Mock 8:34
you would go to their page,
Rob Broadfoot 8:35
I’ll go to their page and look into it.
Don Mock 8:36
And you can do that. Absolutely, you can do that.
Rob Broadfoot 8:39
And it might be it might frustrate you more because I know you’re a big fan of.
Don Mock 8:44
I have a legacy X Twitter.
Rob Broadfoot 8:47
Because Twitter that’s more of a chronological news oriented.
Don Mock 8:50
Well, you’re following along with a live event. You’re following a sports game. And then you see fourth quarter before the first quarter. And you see things all out of whack. It doesn’t make any sense. Right? And that’s, you know, or there’s a journalist covering a news event yet you’re not seeing any of the thing in the order it actually happens.
Rob Broadfoot 9:09
that makes sense to me. I’ve never been a Twitter guy. I don’t use social media in those terms.
Don Mock 9:16
Yeah, I’m on the blue sky now. I’m a blue sky out baby. You know? Yeah. Follow me on blue sky. Alright, so meta. It’s an interesting, you know, hey, it’s it’s free. You called me on the subscription. It is free. I am. I’m a user. Right? Well, I don’t know if you caught this news too. The second part of today’s conversation, I guess, Amazon Prime, which is a paid thing, right.
Rob Broadfoot 9:43
And I would call that a subscription.
Don Mock 9:45
That is a subscription I pay the 100 bucks a year
Rob Broadfoot 9:50
free shipping. whatever that means,
Don Mock 9:52
Amazon Prime is adding ads. They’re adding ads and it started with their live coverage of things that started with you know, they won the Thursday night NFL football, right? You’re getting football, you’re getting ads during football no matter if you want it or not, right? And whenever they have live events or covering sports things, you’re gonna get the ads, right? Well, Amazon Prime is saying, Okay, well, starting pretty soon, we’re going to add a 2,99 per month fee. If you don’t want the ads,
Rob Broadfoot 10:20
Just to be clear in any video that I happen to be watching on, so if I do a movie, I’m gonna get ads unless I pay the fee
Don Mock 10:28
Well, I want to be totally clear. I’m not 100% sure on that. I don’t I don’t know if it’s like old school Hulu, where you watch all the ads at the beginning. And then you watch your thing. I can’t imagine Amazon Prime is going to interrupt your programming, especially Amazon originals with ads in the middle of the show. That would be insane.
Rob Broadfoot 10:47
You know what I hated. It reminded me, remember where they used to go. I think Hulu did it. And it was a choose your ad experience.
Don Mock 10:54
Oh, yeah. I love that.
Rob Broadfoot 10:55
I hated it.
Don Mock 10:56
Why? Because you wanted to see.
Rob Broadfoot 10:58
Show me What you’re gonna show me. I am not paying attention to it Anyway, that’s when I like click over to another tab and look at something real quick and come back when it’s done. I don’t want to choose my ads experience
Don Mock 11:08
Hulu I want to say like, early 2010’s. You know, so I mean, gosh, we’re talking, you know, 13-14 years ago now, when it was still when you when when the network’s got together to create Hulu is ABC, CBS and Fox right was the three partnership to combat oh my god, this nefarious streamer called Netflix. Right? So they did the partnership. And I loved how they were like, Hey, do you want to watch all your ads up front? Or do you want to watch in the middle of your whatever? Yeah, right. You remember this? Yeah, it was great. And it was and it was oh, just put just give me two minutes of ads
Rob Broadfoot 11:45
three minutes of ads. I’m gonna go pee real quick.
Don Mock 11:48
Go make some popcorn or whatever, and then come back and watch my show. That is a fantastic experience. Now, do you know anyone that has the Netflix with ads? Or has had paid down? Because I don’t know how that experience works to your question about Amazon Prime with ads.
Rob Broadfoot 12:04
The Netflix without ads, you’re saying
Don Mock 12:07
you have a cheaper Netflix fee if you if you do the advertising. You know, are they breaking into the middle of there?
Rob Broadfoot 12:12
I’m all ad free.
Don Mock 12:15
I know, well, hey, we’re in advertising. And both of us are ad free. So I do Hulu live plus, plus plus or whatever that thing is? Yeah. Which has no ads as well. However, when you watch on demand, it’s interesting. It’s not up to Hulu. Hulu is just the provider of course.
So if I decide, oh, I want to watch this old episode of a History Channel. You’re gonna get ads. Yeah, you know, and there’s nothing you can do. And it’s like, wait a minute, you’re branding this entire product offering as no ads. And yet, here I am.
Rob Broadfoot 12:49
Yeah, look at the fine print.
Don Mock 12:50
And here I am watching ads. Like come on.
Rob Broadfoot 12:52
Well, it’s no, I mean, as seen throughout time, it’s hey, we’ve unleashed this crazy new technology streaming. And we’re gonna give you everything you want for $6 Yeah, whatever. Yeah. When it came out, we’re not gonna be any ads or any like, we don’t even know if this thing’s gonna work. And now it’s just a continual monetize. monetize. monetize.
Don Mock 13:16
Yeah, we’ve just created cable television all over again. I mean, it took us 15 years but the circle has come, it has come all the way around again. You know,
Rob Broadfoot 13:25
I knew that’s why I just kept mine.
Don Mock 13:28
you’re the only person I know that still has Cable tv. You’ve got the bundle I know you’re bundled together so it’s hard to it’s hard to discount the bundle I get it you know? Well, okay, so back to Meta, would you pay $13 a month for Facebook on your phone
Rob Broadfoot 13:45
No. I think there’s and Here’s why. I’m okay with like
Don Mock 13:53
you’re okay with Instagram ads. Every second post is an Instagram ad just because
Rob Broadfoot 13:58
I don’t really get it doesn’t really bother me for whatever reason. That medium it doesn’t I can scroll faster. away from it like Facebook it doesn’t bother me.
Don Mock 14:08
You’re not stuck on the couch waiting for your programming to come back.
Rob Broadfoot 14:11
Yeah. So it doesn’t it doesn’t really bother me. And I think the notion of it going from totally free to me paying for it. Like it’s not worth the benefits not worth it to me
Don Mock 14:26
Yeah, it’s gonna be interesting to see how successful this is. You know, and I know that the European Union is taking a little bit of a firmer stance on standards and practices related to whatever the perception of free speech is, and moderation and things like that. Right. And trying to eliminate you know, I don’t wanna say the cesspool, but just the as you said earlier about just any type of content whether you want it or not, right.
Rob Broadfoot 14:52
Would you pay for it?
Don Mock 14:53
I would not. You know, personally, I feel like the value in Facebook, from a personal user, I need to be careful here because of course, you know, we do manage, you know, brand accounts
Rob Broadfoot 15:09
This is your own personal account is different
Don Mock 15:10
my own personal account, I find the value in groups for Facebook. if groups weren’t a thing. You know, I think that there would be a tremendous I don’t, you know, this is an assumption, but I think there might be a tremendous abandonment of the utilization of Facebook. there are a lot of people that don’t really know, I mean, hey, you, you post, you know, your pictures and your aunt likes them and different things like that, whatever. But the power of Facebook is beside the marketplace, I guess would be like, Oh, I like this hobby. I like fishing. I like classic cars. I like comic books. I like whatever, you know. And then there are like minded people. And it’s not message boards, right? I mean, like internet 1.0 was like, oh my god message boards. And What a pain in the ass. Oh, yeah. And they were so specialized.
Rob Broadfoot 15:56
It was like Reddit forums and all that.
Don Mock 15:57
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So Facebook is easy. It’s like, Hey, I’ve got a question about how to fix my 67 Mustang. Yeah. Or hey, guys, What part is this? So What and boom, Now, like, there are still snarky ass you know, people within those groups, you know,
Rob Broadfoot 16:14
the internet.
Don Mock 16:14
Exactly. Right. But that is still a powerful tool of having people like minded individuals together.
Rob Broadfoot 16:21
I agree that it’s it is absolutely evolved into a useful resource Versus just an entertainment. Platform.
Don Mock 16:29
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I don’t know Facebook is an interesting one. Instagram, I don’t know. You know, I don’t know. It’s I wouldn’t pay for an ad-less Instagram.
Rob Broadfoot 16:40
Now. Do you on Facebook or Instagram On your personal side. Do you do you go and watch reels and stories and things?
Don Mock 16:48
Rarely. Yeah. Yeah. I’m not a big story or reel guy at all. I virtually never watch stories on on Instagram. Well, I guess it’s stories on Facebook, but reels on Instagram, you know? Unless it’s like my kid or something you know, but I will. And again, this is the power of the algorithm. Any type of weird, handy crafty slow motion, creation or whatever like that. If it’s in my little Facebook feed is scrolling through, I’ll be like, Oh, okay, I’ll watch this weird little, somebody made just a little miniature diorama of a ship sinking You know What I mean?
Rob Broadfoot 17:28
And you never seek it out, but yeah,
Don Mock 17:30
and it’s 60 seconds. And now my feed is all filled with that type of weird little painted miniatures. Like little you know, the arts and crafts, these sort of stuff. Why? I don’t know, I don’t follow any of those things. It’s that I watched one
Rob Broadfoot 17:43
they know that you watched the whole thing. You didn’t click off of it. You watched that whole thing.
Don Mock 17:48
Exactly. So they’re giving me more they’re giving me more exactly. So that’s about it. And I you know, I interact a fair amount with Meta through work, but on the personal side, like I’m not really scrolling through Facebook at night on the couch, things like that. but I’ve have a legacy more of being on Twitter. Yeah, right. Twitter would be more the thing I read while I’m now to catch up with journalism and things like that, like I’d read that while eating my cereal in the morning.
Rob Broadfoot 18:12
Twitter is your newspaper?
Don Mock 18:14
Yeah. but I’d also tweet along with all the other psychopaths during a sporting event during a live event, or I’ll tweet about Atlanta united all the time. And then you get it. You get some like minded individuals. Yeah. Fire that guy. And then you get a bunch and you get in arguments with people is great.
Rob Broadfoot 18:30
I watched more and more reels and stories.
Don Mock 18:33
Okay. Yeah, well, okay.
Rob Broadfoot 18:34
I do.
Don Mock 18:35
Of people that you know, like family members and friends or random
starts off, starts off with Where it’ll be like a fishing video, like, Oh, some guy’s gonna catch a monster fish. So I’ll click on it. Okay. And then just like my kids do just go down this next, next and it’s a nice, but it’s not all fishing stuff. That’s Oh, I’m cutting to a clip of Theo von doing a comedy thing or, you know, whatever it is. And I see how the kids can. It can.
Yeah, it can take but you wouldn’t pay for it. You wouldn’t pay for a subscription model. Yeah,
Rob Broadfoot 19:12
I’m not gonna pay for it.
Don Mock 19:14
Yeah. I’m not I’m not going to do it either. But on would you would you plus up your Amazon experience now? Would you add an extra, you know, 24 bucks a year? Or I don’t even know the math.
Rob Broadfoot 19:24
Here’s why I wouldn’t. And this came up the other day. I never watch anything on Amazon. Very, very rarely do I forget that I can even really, unless there’s some Yeah, it’s certainly not top of mind. Yeah, I mean, above it. Yeah. Netflix, Hulu. Apple TV. HBO Max. Like all of those are way above of Amazon.
Don Mock 19:44
I honestly forget Thursday night football is even a thing now which is crazy because I’m such an NFL fan but I’ll get a text from a buddy that’s like oh my god. Go Raiders. Or you know, and I was like, What I’m like, There’s a football game right now. Like I totally will space out and totally forget
Rob Broadfoot 19:59
The only reason I’ll go to Amazon there. They do have good documentaries. And I’m a sucker for good documentary. But I have to know about it. Like I never go there to search. It’s always Oh, go watch this and you can only watch it on Amazon.
Don Mock 20:12
What’s your most watched streaming platform?
Rob Broadfoot 20:15
I would say Netflix.
Don Mock 20:17
Netflix. Okay. Yeah, that sounds about right. That tracks mine is definitely Max. I never watch anything on Netflix anymore. As strange as that sounds. Again, I virtually never watch Netflix.
Rob Broadfoot 20:27
I watch. Yeah, probably Netflix and then Hulu. probably.
Don Mock 20:32
Alright. What’s your social channel that you utilize the most? Is it the book of faces? Facebook
Rob Broadfoot 20:37
probably Instagram
Don Mock 20:39
Okay. Yeah. All right. That’s cool.
Rob Broadfoot 20:40
It’s probably it’s probably Instagram, but I don’t but you know, me, I don’t post anymore.
Don Mock 20:45
You’re just a lurker now.
Rob Broadfoot 20:46
I just go in view. Like I don’t.
Don Mock 20:48
I’m okay with that.
Rob Broadfoot 20:49
I don’t post anymore.
Don Mock 20:50
I post a little bit here and there. mostly on Facebook. I’ll post here and there.
Rob Broadfoot 20:54
And you gotta have some really good to get one of my likes.
Don Mock 20:57
You don’t even let people know that you’ve seen it. Okay. You’re the nebulous view.
Rob Broadfoot 20:59
it’s like to monitor what’s going on out there in the world. Yeah. But I don’t think I posted anything. And it’s been a couple years probably.
Don Mock 21:12
Wow. Okay. You don’t have much to share with the world. You know,
Rob Broadfoot 21:15
I’m very private.
Don Mock 21:16
Well, I’ll tell you What, because you are not actively posting you are have definitely fallen out of the algorithm for when you post people are not gonna see it. Because it is definitely the the more you use, the more you are displayed. Yeah. Right. So when you finally come out of the cave, no one’s gonna see it. No one’s gonna see it.
Rob Broadfoot 21:37
Yeah, no one’s gonna know.
Don Mock 21:38
Yeah, it’s an interesting, you know, it’s, again, our bread is buttered through advertising. And I am continually astonished at the power of social right. However, knowing that Facebook still is 77% of all social referral traffic. I mean, it’s really like, so we talk about Instagram, we talk about TikTok, and we talk about X or Twitter or whatever it’s called. But that’s their peanuts. They’re nothing. They’re nothing burger. I mean, Facebook is still almost a full 80% of all social referral traffic. it boggles my mind
Rob Broadfoot 22:10
we are going to see and this is their their continual struggle, right? To stay relevant. Because it’s true. I mean, if I think about my kids that are ages, you know, college all the way down to eighth grade right now.
Don Mock 22:22
They’re not on Facebook,
Rob Broadfoot 22:23
none of them. None of them have a Facebook account. Not even my college kids like
Don Mock 22:29
well, do you remember when Facebook bought Instagram And everyone was like, What? Why? Why would you do that? Like, What in the world is happening? And it was, well,
Rob Broadfoot 22:36
we need the younger audience. where the kids are
Don Mock 22:38
or you have to buy down, you know What I mean? It was it’s, it’s not dissimilar in some ways to Disney had every single young girl in the world, right. And it was, why would Disney buy Marvel Oh, well, because all the little boys are over on the Marvel side. So yeah, you know, I mean, it’s you got to keep refilling the pipeline. Also to like, everyone’s already subscribed. I mean, Elon has figured this out with Twitter to like, the people that it’s been around for 20 years. The people that are going to subscribe, have already subscribed, like there’s no more user base, like you can’t get new people, right. So it’s you have to activate and monetize the people you already have. Yeah, that’s a conversation for another time. But like, the same thing with Facebook, like they are at the tipping point of eventually they will have, you know, people aren’t going to sign up anymore.
Rob Broadfoot 23:09
Like you you’re saturated.
Don Mock 23:30
This gigantic global entity. There’s no way we we don’t have baby, we can’t make babies fast enough.
Rob Broadfoot 23:35
I mean, they’ve done a good job, I think to your point with groups and things like that of holding on to their user base. as best they can. But yeah, listen, we’re in we’re in the business of advertising. We’re in the business of marketing, but you know What? Ads are annoying, they just are, it is by design a interruption to What you are doing.
Don Mock 23:56
Yeah, that’s exactly what I was going to say.
Rob Broadfoot 23:57
There are great ads, there are way more terrible ads than there are good ads. So I absolutely support anyone’s right to pay to not watch them.
Don Mock 24:07
Well, if somebody wants to create a great ad. Right and be part of the process and not be one of those horrible ads. Where would those people go rob?
Rob Broadfoot 24:16
Well, there’s a select few places, I guess I should say they can go but they could go to the internet and they could find us there at www.mocktheagency.com Or on the socials. Those we were just discussing at @mocktheagency Of course, and we will see you on social media.
Don Mock 24:38
Rob will see you on social media
Rob Broadfoot 24:39
If I see you I will talk to you if you’re lucky
Don Mock 24:43
Alright, fun. Thanks, everybody.
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