Episode Transcript
Don Mock 0:19
Alright, Episode 13. We’re back, and Rob is back. Welcome back, Rob.
Rob Broadfoot 0:22
Back.
Don Mock 0:24
We thought it might be interesting to chat about brands and the desire to break through the clutter. Breaking through the noise, right? We always get a lot of briefs here at the office. We talk a lot about it in advertising history. We talked about it in design history, sort of the concept of breaking through the noise. Everybody says they want it. But do they really want it?
Rob Broadfoot 0:45
Do they really want it? They want it but then they’re scared of it.
Don Mock 0:49
Yes, exactly.
Rob Broadfoot 0:50
Because as we all know, with risk comes reward. That happens here a lot. I would say most everybody says that they are at least 75%. Say, we want to do something totally different.
Don Mock 1:04
Yes.
Rob Broadfoot 1:05
We want to stand out when everyone zigs. Zig when everyone zags. We want to stand out. We want to break through the clutter. All the other words with the noise.
Don Mock 1:13
Buzzwords.
Rob Broadfoot 1:14
Buzzwords, all the other buzzwords, which we love. It’s great to hear. But a lot of times we do that.
Don Mock 1:22
Correct.
Rob Broadfoot 1:23
As instructed.
Don Mock 1:24
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 1:24
And then when we show them some of these things, regardless of tactic, they get scared really quickly.
Don Mock 1:31
Yes.
Rob Broadfoot 1:31
Very, very nervous.
Don Mock 1:32
Absolutely.
Rob Broadfoot 1:33
Because I think the gut is to go well, wait a minute. I think maybe they automatically think about their competitive set.
Don Mock 1:41
Yes.
Rob Broadfoot 1:41
Wait a minute. Wait, oh, wait a second. Nobody else is doing doing that. There’s got to be a reason nobody else is doing that. And they get scared to do that.
Don Mock 1:49
Yeah. Well, sometimes I think you can define creativity, not by giving it an analogy to something else, right? If something truly is creative, it should make you nervous. Right?
Rob Broadfoot 1:58
Right.
Don Mock 1:58
Because it’s not like what anybody else is out there doing.
Rob Broadfoot 2:01
Right.
Don Mock 2:01
But the history books tell us that all of the crazy wacky zingy ideas that get poo pooed on from upper management, from a design, or whatever the case may be sometimes, end up becoming the world’s biggest success stories.
Rob Broadfoot 2:01
Right.
Don Mock 2:15
You know, from a product design perspective, I’m reminded of when VW relaunched the bug. Like 20 years ago or something now. That kept getting shot down, shot down, shot down. I believe that design team, again, we’re talking like industrial design now. But, I believe that design team worked at nights and weekends and did all sorts of stuff, right? And just kept, flying the good flag to try to get it through and then turns out boom, Herman Miller, that Aeron chair
Rob Broadfoot 2:33
Right.
Don Mock 2:40
Another great example of, those are both product designs, though.
Rob Broadfoot 2:43
Great chair. I sit in one today.
Don Mock 2:45
I sit in one as well. I have for like 20 years. But remember, that was like, oh my God, you’re gonna show the exoskeleton? It wasn’t a wacky, weird looking thing at the time that was very unlike anything else, right? So, I think when we get briefs of, we really want something that’s different, that nobody else is doing. But, then it’s oh no, I’m scared because nobody else is doing it.
Rob Broadfoot 3:06
So, we think about product design, too. I think about the example and we’ve all heard the story. But, it’s worth mentioning because it’s so simple. It’s when Heinz turned the ketchup bottle upside down.
Don Mock 3:18
Yes.
Rob Broadfoot 3:18
Let’s let gravity be our friend.
Don Mock 3:20
Absolutely. Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 3:22
When I was little, my father used to say all the time, to me a little rhyme and it went like this.
Don Mock 3:27
Oh, boy.
Rob Broadfoot 3:28
Shake and shake the ketchup bottle. None will come and then a lottle. Perhaps that was part of the inspiration. But, I don’t remember what the story was. But it was like, oh yeah, the intern did it in the meeting and turned it.
Don Mock 3:40
I don’t really know. I do know, it’s the transition from glass to plastic.
Rob Broadfoot 3:46
Plastic.
Don Mock 3:47
And we started using more squeezing, if that makes any sense, right? But I think again, brilliance, right?
Rob Broadfoot 3:52
Yeah.
Don Mock 3:52
I’m gonna turn that thing upside down.
Rob Broadfoot 3:54
Turn it upside down.
Don Mock 3:54
You’ll notice that now I think in shampoo and conditioner.
Rob Broadfoot 3:57
That’s right.
Don Mock 3:58
You have the same design, the only thing that’s different, obviously a shampoo or conditioner. But, how do you give consumers a clue that it’s drastically different product?
Rob Broadfoot 4:07
Right.
Don Mock 4:07
The other one’s upside down, which I thought is interesting.
Rob Broadfoot 4:09
So, a couple of cool, thoughts there. But, we were talking about trying to think of recent examples of marketing specific things, I think. So, we were talking before we hit the record button about Liquid Death.
Don Mock 4:26
Yes.
Rob Broadfoot 4:26
The brand Liquid Death. Which has been a dare I say, disrupter.
Don Mock 4:31
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 4:32
Another good buzzword.
Don Mock 4:33
I do like it.
Rob Broadfoot 4:34
A disruptor in the water space. And the water space is an interesting one. I think in terms of both just the idea that we packaged water and turned it into a multi, multibillion, trillion dollar business.
Don Mock 4:48
Yeah it’s weird. And we have worked in the space too.
Rob Broadfoot 4:50
We have worked in the space.
Don Mock 4:51
We have done bottled water work before.
Rob Broadfoot 4:53
So, as a product in and of itself, you’ve had pushback, obviously with plastic.
Don Mock 5:00
Environmental concerns.
Rob Broadfoot 5:01
Environmental concerns.
Don Mock 5:02
Also, is it just tap water? You know what I mean? Is it literally just tap water? But, then also going back to environmental concerns, are we just taking water from Fiji? And then putting it in plastic and transferring it across, the carbon footprint of this specific, but then we get into the evolution of electrolytes and this one’s got alkaline, such and such and all sorts of different aspects around just water.
Rob Broadfoot 5:27
Right.
Don Mock 5:27
Which is interesting.
Rob Broadfoot 5:27
Right.
Don Mock 5:28
But, I think where you’re going with this is, it’s healthy, right? It’s light. It’s..
Rob Broadfoot 5:33
Clean.
Don Mock 5:34
It’s clean. It’s refreshing.
Rob Broadfoot 5:36
Pure.
Don Mock 5:36
Delicious, right? But, your example. I don’t want to steal your thunder here, but your example, of Liquid Death is a great example of zigging where everybody else is zagging.
Rob Broadfoot 5:36
It’s like the opposite. I mean, Fiji, let’s think about the cleanest, cleanest places on Earth, right? And pristine and beautiful. Somebody came along and went, how about Liquid Death?
Don Mock 5:57
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 5:58
Which sounds like the world’s most potent energy drink.
Don Mock 6:01
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 6:01
Or the world’s most potent alcohol.
Don Mock 6:03
I was about to say it sounds like a caffeinated sort of Four Loko.
Rob Broadfoot 6:07
It sounds like that. Like you took a Four Loko and made it an energy drink.
Don Mock 6:11
Yes. And for those that aren’t aware of that, the graphics are like flaming skulls and all sorts of cray cray.
Rob Broadfoot 6:17
It’s insane.
Don Mock 6:18
But it’s just water.
Rob Broadfoot 6:19
It’s just water. It’s in a dark can. It’s all dark and kind of gold.
Don Mock 6:24
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 6:24
Unlike the clear plastic bottle that we’re all primarily used to.
Don Mock 6:28
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 6:29
So, I think Liquid Death. You can only imagine, I would say the first hurdle was the naming.
Don Mock 6:34
Yeah, for sure.
Rob Broadfoot 6:35
Whoever came up with it presented the name to the executive team. They probably freaked out.
Don Mock 6:41
Yeah, probably.
Rob Broadfoot 6:41
Or, well, at least some of them freaked out.
Don Mock 6:43
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 6:44
A few brave souls went no, that’s exactly what we’re doing. That is the perfect zig, or zag, zig situation.
Don Mock 6:51
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 6:52
And then. And then.
Don Mock 6:54
But that is, if we’re talking about breaking through the clutter.
Rob Broadfoot 6:57
Yeah.
Don Mock 6:57
Instead of doing another blue or translucent bottle or something that has a health, or it’s from this natural spring, in such and such, somewhere, right? That is an extreme example, which I think is a great example of definitely breaking through the clutter.
Rob Broadfoot 7:13
Well, if you think about the concept that water is life.
Don Mock 7:16
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 7:16
This is literally the exact opposite of that, it is death.
Don Mock 7:20
Yeah, it’s 180.
Rob Broadfoot 7:20
When literally you couldn’t go more 180.
Don Mock 7:24
Random question. Have you ever drank Liquid Death?
Rob Broadfoot 7:26
I have.
Don Mock 7:27
I have as well? Yeah, I have as well.
Rob Broadfoot 7:28
You know what it tastes like?
Don Mock 7:29
It tastes like water.
Rob Broadfoot 7:30
It tastes like water. But, fantastic. Brilliant. Then I think the the idea of if you’re going to do something. If you’re going to take a bold risk and do something bold, don’t half ass it.
Don Mock 7:45
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 7:45
That’s when you fail. If you’re going to do it, you better lean all the way into it and go for it.
Don Mock 7:50
Well, I think it would have been an epic failure if they named the product Liquid Death, but it didn’t have the design and brand associated with that name. If it had, if they changed out, or to your point, they kind of have to. It wouldn’t have that same impact, and it wouldn’t work. If you’re gonna lean it, basically what we’re trying to say, I guess, if you’re going to lean into it, you have to lean into it all the way.
Rob Broadfoot 8:10
Right. Trust the process. So, in that, and I don’t know anything about who did it or, or the client. But clearly, there was a level of trust, that totally worked.
Don Mock 8:23
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 8:24
I think they’re doing really well.
Don Mock 8:26
Well, it’s everywhere. So, I mean, it’s got distribution. Any other examples you can think of, really breaking through the clutter?
Rob Broadfoot 8:33
I don’t know if i’d file this under breaking through the clutter, but I think about the idea of, sort of an offshoot, but the idea of being true to who you are.
Don Mock 8:45
Okay.
Rob Broadfoot 8:45
Being true to who you are, and to your customer base and all of these things. What I was thinking about, Burger King, in general. They’ve, throughout the course of history, or at least the past few decades, whatever, back when Crispin was doing a bunch of work for that stuff. It was super, super bold work.
Don Mock 9:03
It was.
Rob Broadfoot 9:04
So, I think from a marketing and advertising standpoint, when you had the king and doing all the crazy, wacky stuff.
Don Mock 9:09
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 9:09
That was marketing unlike anybody else was doing. But on a deeper level, what they were doing was really staying true to who they are and leaning into what they bring to the table.
Don Mock 9:10
Oh, okay.
Rob Broadfoot 9:13
So, you had this path where McDonald’s and Wendy’s and a lot of that category, were starting to move towards healthier offerings.
Don Mock 9:31
Yeah, remember the McSalad Shakers?
Rob Broadfoot 9:33
McSalad Shakers, yeah. It was a health play.
Don Mock 9:36
Epic really.
Rob Broadfoot 9:36
Low calorie thing, where Burger King said um, no. We make Whoppers.
Don Mock 9:42
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 9:43
The cheesier, the more calories, the better.
Don Mock 9:43
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Rob Broadfoot 9:48
So, I think that’s a great example of just being true to who you are.
Don Mock 9:54
Well, it’s authenticity. It’s a great example. If you take Liquid Death as the extreme example, right? 180 degrees of doing the complete polar opposite of what everybody else is doing. I think the Burger King example is a great one of 100% authenticity to how you originally started, and not trying to hide it.
Rob Broadfoot 10:12
Right.
Don Mock 10:13
I think that, and again, we’re kind of cherry picking history a little bit here. But, McDonald’s trying to go with the McSalad Shaker and the healthy alternatives. It was like, well, we want to provide these options to consumers.
Rob Broadfoot 10:25
Right.
Don Mock 10:26
Because we’re getting so much flack about how bad fast food is for you, and whatever the case may be. It’s like, people don’t go to McDonald’s to get salads. You go to salad places to get salads, or you make a salad at home.
Have you ever had at McDonald’s salad?
No, I don’t think they even offer it anymore and I never have went back. McDonald’s is like the McRib for crying out loud.
Rob Broadfoot 10:44
Right.
Don Mock 10:45
That’s their big seasonal, you go for some weird, I don’t even know if there’s meat in that thing.
Rob Broadfoot 10:49
It’s the road trip treat.
Don Mock 10:52
That’s the only time you eat McDonald’s is when you’re in a car on a road trip, right? So, the only time I eat Bojangles is in the Carolinas, but that’s beside the point. But, the authenticity of Burger King staying true to, we make flame grilled burgers.
Rob Broadfoot 11:07
Yep.
Don Mock 11:07
And if you want flame grilled burger, come here and get one.
Rob Broadfoot 11:10
Come see us.
Don Mock 11:10
Yeah, absolutely. That’s a good 20 year sort of case study. Now they do have, the Impossible Burger is an interesting aspect in terms of, they are, everything we’re saying about the negative of McDonald’s trying to be healthy. They’re they’re still taking a meat substitute product.
Rob Broadfoot 11:28
Yeah.
Don Mock 11:28
And running it through the Burger King advertising venue, right?
Rob Broadfoot 11:33
They’re running it through. It feels, we’ll use the word again. It does feel authentic, even though yes, it is. But, impossible burger in and of itself is a cool brand.
Don Mock 11:42
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 11:43
Right. It’s a great name.
Don Mock 11:44
Yeah, for sure.
Rob Broadfoot 11:45
And a cool brand, and it seems to align with Burger King in their brand identity, I suppose.
Don Mock 11:53
Yeah, for sure.
Rob Broadfoot 11:55
It still feels authentic.
Don Mock 11:58
Well, we have experience working on this, as well in the past, with Morningstar Farm Burgers and things like that, right? We can talk about that brand, because we don’t work on it anymore. But, the concept of being authentic and being true to yourself, the Spicy Black Bean Burger. Delicious products.
Rob Broadfoot 12:17
Right.
Don Mock 12:17
It’s not trying to be a fake burger. It’s its own thing.
Rob Broadfoot 12:20
Right.
Don Mock 12:21
Which I think is interesting in terms of breaking through the clutter. Not trying to be and pretend like you’re something else.
Rob Broadfoot 12:27
Yeah, I’m not a fake burger.
Don Mock 12:29
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 12:29
I’m just a different type of burger.
Don Mock 12:31
Exactly. So, I believe we had the headline, no meat, all burger on one of our old executions.
Rob Broadfoot 12:38
Yeah.
Don Mock 12:38
So, it’s interesting to think about the concept of what creativity means for any given industry, and how far do you swing that pendulum? Sometimes, breaking through the clutter. That’s what we’re talking about, obviously. It doesn’t necessarily have to be the Liquid Death experience.
Rob Broadfoot 12:56
Right.
Don Mock 12:56
It just has to be a little bit left or right of center of what everybody else is doing, and just to stand out and be authentic and true to yourself, right? I think to your earlier point, how we started off this, this little podcast, is a lot of people asking to be so different. But, then our exercise sometimes is to show them, here’s where you are currently. Here’s a little step away. Here’s that second step away, and then oh, here’s crazytown.
Rob Broadfoot 13:22
Right.
Don Mock 13:22
And we’ve done a lot of design exploration for clients outside of just conceptual messaging. I think we’re both thinking about it from an advertorial or messaging and brand development, but even design executions on, here’s what your packaging is, now. Here’s what it could be like for line extension next year. Here’s the 10 year outlook on where this brand could go, that type of thing. So, chatting with clients through what those steps look like. Avoiding shopper confusion. You can’t be so wacky and zingy just for the sake of wacky and zingy.
Rob Broadfoot 13:23
Right, I was gonna say you don’t act crazy just to act crazy.
Don Mock 13:58
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 13:58
There’s always a reason and a strategy behind it.
Don Mock 14:01
For sure. There’s a method to the madness.
Rob Broadfoot 14:05
But anyway, that’s the fun stuff.
Don Mock 14:08
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 14:08
So, I think that’ll bring us to the conclusion of today’s podcast. Lucky 13.
Don Mock 14:15
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 14:15
And as always, you can find us on the interwebs at mocktheagency.com, or all the socials @mocktheagency.
Don Mock 14:23
Yeah.
Rob Broadfoot 14:24
And I’ll say it again, feel free to comment and tell us how much you love this podcast, and others and drop us a note on ideas or things you’d like for us to talk about. We’re happy to have you do that as well. Alright, go ahead and play us out.
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