Episode Transcript
Keri Hart 0:19
Alright episode 37. We’re back and we have a very special visitor in the super expensive studio here today. We have our friend, Keri Hart, is joining us. Say hello, Keri.
Hello Keri.
Don Mock 0:30
I love how everybody does that. It’s like the running joke every time I say, say hello, whatever. Everybody says hello. Alright, first of all, thanks for popping by and doing the podcast. Super fun.
Keri Hart 0:40
Thanks for having me.
Don Mock 0:40
Yeah, we were just down the street taking a bunch of magical photos.
Keri Hart 0:43
Mhm.
Don Mock 0:44
Doing a lot of photo shoots. We do a lot of photo shoots with Keri and why don’t, you want me to go through your resume? Or do you want to introduce your own resume? How do you want to do this? I mean, this is very formal here.
Keri Hart 0:55
I don’t know.
Don Mock 0:56
Tell the people about yourself, I guess like where are you, and what do you do now? What’s your job title or however you want to do it?
Keri Hart 1:02
Sure. I am the Brand Manager for Wayne Sanderson Farms.
Don Mock 1:06
Wayne Sanderson Farms. Yeah. And what does Wayne Sanderson Farms do?
Keri Hart 1:09
They are a poultry producer. So, we’re a fully vertically integrated poultry company. The third largest in the nation, now that we are Wayne Sanderson.
Don Mock 1:20
Wow, number three?
Keri Hart 1:21
Number three.
Don Mock 1:21
That’s huge. Okay, I don’t even know that I even realized that.
Keri Hart 1:24
Well, we are.
Don Mock 1:24
And yet, here we are. We’re the ones that redid the Wayne Sanderson Farm’s brand.
Keri Hart 1:28
You betcha.
Don Mock 1:29
And I didn’t even know we were number three. That’s exciting.
Keri Hart 1:30
You are integral in the number three.
Don Mock 1:32
That’s exciting. So, vertically integrated, meaning we control from farming?
Keri Hart 1:38
Yes.
Don Mock 1:38
Right, all the way through production. Is that correct?
Keri Hart 1:40
Hatchery all the way through production.
Don Mock 1:42
Okay.
Keri Hart 1:42
From egg to the chicken on your plate.
Don Mock 1:45
Yes, and Brand Manager, what is what does that mean? From a Wayne Sanderson perspective? Brand Manager with poultry sort of food, retail and foodservice?
Keri Hart 1:57
Retail and foodservice.
Don Mock 1:58
Right.
Keri Hart 1:58
Yes.
Don Mock 1:58
So, what kind of encapsulates your day, or what are we?
Keri Hart 2:01
Gosh, it’s anything from packaging. So, labeling a retail bag to working with your team for social media, to sales materials, sales sheets, decks. Working with brokers and distributors on materials that they might need.
Don Mock 2:22
Absolutely.
Keri Hart 2:22
So, kind of all over the place.
Don Mock 2:24
Yeah. So, I think we integrate with you guys on a lot of different aspects. I guess if I may be so bold, sort of talk about ourselves on our own podcast. Everything from brand identity development for a brand new line. We think about Naked Truth, obviously, having worked on that for quite a number of years.
Keri Hart 2:41
Yeah.
Don Mock 2:41
Sort of starting with naming that, all the way through identity development, through consumer packaging. I know at one point that was a foodservice brand, but now it’s a retail brand. So, everything to support the sales efforts in Whole Foods, right?
Keri Hart 2:55
Mhm.
Don Mock 2:55
As you mentioned, we do a lot of social with you guys, which is super fun. Also do a lot of advertising. Obviously, we just did a whole entire wings campaign right at the end of last year. And we’re bringing that back.
Keri Hart 3:03
Yes.
Don Mock 3:04
Trade Show and Environmental Design. I know when we go to Pizza show, we go to IDPA. All these other great alphabet soup, trade shows, which is super fun, right? I mean, gosh, even down to tactical deployment of sell sheets and catalogs. The prepared foods catalog. All sorts of stuff.
Keri Hart 3:23
You know what I do better than I do.
Don Mock 3:25
How long have we worked? It’s been quite a now we’ve worked with Wayne. We’ve worked with Wayne Sanderson Farms for a number of years. I want to say, it’s been over five years at least. I don’t think it’s been ten. Maybe in that eight? Seven, eight-ish, maybe? I’d have to go back and check.
Keri Hart 3:38
I’m not sure. But you and I have worked together for almost three magical years.
Don Mock 3:42
Really? It only feels like it’s been ten. Three magical years. Yes. Yes. Not afraid to say definitely favorite client status. For sure, love working with Keri.
Keri Hart 3:53
I didn’t know if you could say that on this podcast, in front of the other favorite children.
Don Mock 3:57
Our tens of clients that listen to this. I don’t think, you know, I’ve made that joke before. So, yeah. Hey, any other clients want to pop on the podcast? For sure, I’ll tell them that they’re our favorite too. Just don’t tell anyone else, you know?
Keri Hart 4:10
No one’s listening.
Don Mock 4:11
I know. Well, we do have. We’re getting there. I’m starting to get defensive about the pod, you know?
Keri Hart 4:18
Oh, sorry.
Don Mock 4:18
Now that we’re on Episode 37.
Keri Hart 4:20
It makes me less nervous if I think no one’s listening.
Don Mock 4:22
So, we’ll turn off the friend brain for a minute and get into the hard hitting questions. So, advertising, marketing, design, from a Brand Management perspective. Important? Not important? What are your thoughts? How do you integrate, because I also know that I do recognize that you guys are a gigantic company and you interface with other agencies as well doing good things right?
Keri Hart 4:41
Yes.
Don Mock 4:42
I guess talk to me about, or kind of put you on the hot seat here. But any specific successes and or pitfalls, anything you want to share. I guess and any thoughts about maybe interfacing with us or interfacing with creatives in general or marketing, anything that’s kind of fun? Any fun stories?
Keri Hart 4:58
Fun stories?
Don Mock 4:59
I kind of just hit you with like twelve questions all at once.
Keri Hart 5:01
You did.
Don Mock 5:01
Which might be a little bit too confusing?
Keri Hart 5:03
Well, I guess I was just thinking that I have worked, obviously, I’ve worked with different companies before. And so I have the kind of perspective of working with both internal agencies.
Don Mock 5:15
Yeah.
Keri Hart 5:16
Versus.
Don Mock 5:17
Great point.
Keri Hart 5:17
External. So, that’s definitely kind of a different story. There’s different battles that you have on each side. So, I think like with Wayne Sanderson specifically, working with different agencies, it’s just, I don’t know. It’s like, it’s children, right. Like you’re working, each child has its own quirk, I guess.
Don Mock 5:40
Oh, boy.
Keri Hart 5:41
Yeah.
Don Mock 5:41
Are we supposed to say we have favorite children? Or we don’t say we have favorites?
Keri Hart 5:44
Oh, everyone has their favorite child.
Don Mock 5:46
Just don’t tell their children that they’re their favorite?
Keri Hart 5:48
No.
Don Mock 5:48
Okay.
Keri Hart 5:49
No.
Don Mock 5:49
Alright.
Keri Hart 5:50
But, I think it’s just, you’re, depending on the size and the complexity.
Don Mock 5:57
Yeah.
Keri Hart 5:57
There’s different aspects of it.
Don Mock 5:58
Well, before, and stop me if you don’t want to talk about this, by any stretch. Or we can always edit this out. But before you were in food, you were not in food.
Keri Hart 6:08
Correct.
Don Mock 6:08
And you worked with Adidas, I believe, right?
Keri Hart 6:11
Yes, I did. Yeah.
Don Mock 6:11
So, internal agency with Adidas or external or how did it work there? From managing creative departments.
Keri Hart 6:19
Yeah, they were internal.
Don Mock 6:20
Okay.
Keri Hart 6:20
Yes. And actually, when I worked for Adidas, I didn’t do too much on the brand management side. I worked mostly with, I was in sports marketing.
Don Mock 6:30
Okay.
Keri Hart 6:30
So, that was kind of one of the big wheels turn slow situations. So, you work with someone who probably works with someone else who may work with another outside agency to do certain projects, that kind of thing.
Don Mock 6:45
So, is it safe to say, I guess maybe one of the big differences is sort of timing and and speed to market?
Keri Hart 6:53
Yeah, well, and just how many, to go back to my food, now. Like, how many cooks are in the kitchen, right?
Don Mock 7:00
Yeah.
Keri Hart 7:00
So, I mean, you really had to run it up the chain, depending on what the project was.
Don Mock 7:06
Sure. Sure.
Keri Hart 7:06
So, big company.
Don Mock 7:09
What do you prefer? Do you prefer working with external vendors, like us? Or do you prefer having in house creative? Hey, I’m not going to be, there’s no hard feelings whatsoever. I should note that we work with plenty of clients that also have internal.
Keri Hart 7:24
Yeah.
Don Mock 7:25
Creative teams, right? From a production aspect and stuff like that. Sometimes it totally makes sense to keep things in house and sometimes it makes sense to go out of house for that outside perspective and work with a firm like us, and we definitely pride ourselves on, playing nicely with everybody.
Keri Hart 7:39
Sure.
Don Mock 7:39
I mean, I’ve definitely had great relationships and great working experiences with internal creative departments to execute the vision that, XYZ brand team wants to bear fruit and market with, you know.
Keri Hart 7:50
Yeah, I think the funny part is, is that my experience with both internal and external agencies is that we have the same arguments.
Don Mock 7:57
Oh, interesting.
Keri Hart 7:57
You would think that with an internal, I say, agency, like in air quotes.
Don Mock 8:01
Yeah.
Keri Hart 8:02
Internally, that you guys are all on the same side, you have the same agenda, right? You’re always wanting the same outcome.
Don Mock 8:10
You should be rowing the boat in the same direction.
Keri Hart 8:12
Exactly, and you still have the same, I feel, the same disagreements that you have with an external agency about maybe that creative isn’t the direction we want to go. Or maybe that makes me a little uncomfortable.
Don Mock 8:23
Sure.
Keri Hart 8:23
Or did you read the brief, question mark?
Don Mock 8:27
No.
Keri Hart 8:27
That, no.
Don Mock 8:30
Funny.
Keri Hart 8:30
Yes.
Don Mock 8:31
Okay. So, that’s interesting. I guess maybe creatives are sort of the same no matter where you plunk us, right? I mean, we are inherently insecure, funny, quirky, weird, little individuals, you know?
Keri Hart 8:40
Sure.
Don Mock 8:43
Yeah, exactly. Alright. I could just keep asking questions, I guess. But any sort of, any stories or any thoughts? Any fun we’ve had over the last three years? Any successes about poultry and whatnot?
Keri Hart 8:58
I really liked the last campaign that we were able to work on together which was the wings campaign.
Don Mock 9:02
The wings campaign. Yeah.
Keri Hart 9:05
Yeah, we were really trying to push some wings in foodservice. And so it was kind of a new thing for me, really to do, and then, being able to work with you on that creative.
Don Mock 9:18
Yeah.
Keri Hart 9:18
And you guys came back with, you know, a lot of working in food, a lot of what you’re showing is these beautiful plated images of food, right?
Don Mock 9:28
Sure. Sure.
Keri Hart 9:28
Like you’re seeing the burger. You’re seeing the full plate wings.
Don Mock 9:31
Yeah.
Keri Hart 9:31
You’re seeing all of this stuff.
Don Mock 9:32
Absolutely.
Keri Hart 9:33
And everyone’s like, oh, I really want to eat that.
Don Mock 9:35
Yeah, flavor triggers. I mean it needs to look delicious or you’re not going to want to eat it.
Keri Hart 9:38
Yes. Yeah, and ya’ll came back with a chewed up wing.
Don Mock 9:44
Yeah.
Keri Hart 9:44
Singular.
Don Mock 9:45
Yeah.
Keri Hart 9:45
On a basically pretty stark background.
Don Mock 9:48
Yeah.
Keri Hart 9:48
With a really great tagline. It was something like; samples so good that our.. What did you say? It was something about.
Don Mock 9:54
It was wings so delicious.
Keri Hart 9:55
Wings so delicious, our advertising agency keeps asking for samples.
Don Mock 9:59
Exactly.
Keri Hart 10:00
Yes.
Don Mock 10:00
Well, there’s truth in advertising there because we keep doing photo shoots of wings and I keep taking the wings home and cooking them at home. Much to my family’s delight, or maybe just me and my son. We eat the wings, like every weekend. It’s hilarious. Yeah, this vertically integrated, you guys might be onto something, right? Because it’s, the wings are pretty darn delicious. Here’s what we’ll do. We will add that. We’ll put these out on Instagram and everything, so that everybody can, sort of find out what’s going on with those ads. It was a bunch of trade advertising, I believe in a bunch of different publications, websites. Trying to think of what else. We did some email blasts, things like that, right?
Keri Hart 10:37
Yeah.
Don Mock 10:37
Sort of your standard media add buy.
Keri Hart 10:39
Yeah.
Don Mock 10:39
I think so. Yeah, that’s been a lot of fun. I know. We also did the Flying Saucers rebrand, which was fun. I love, love, love that you guys picked that name. I think that was fun. Great name for wings. Especially the type of wings that we were trying to brand in regards to them being non-seasoned to begin with. I mean, fully cooked, oven roasted, I believe, right?
Keri Hart 10:39
Yes.
Don Mock 10:39
But not sauce, right? So, the idea is any restaurant could buy these wings and then customize it with their own sauce, right?
Keri Hart 10:43
Right. We had a oven roasted in a steamed wing? I believe so.
Don Mock 10:52
That’s correct.
Keri Hart 10:55
The oven roasted was more for those pizzerias that don’t have fryers. They can run them through their pizza oven.
Don Mock 11:14
Exactly, exactly.
Keri Hart 11:15
Yeah.
Don Mock 11:16
But, we brought a bit of alien love to it, you know?
Keri Hart 11:19
Yes.
Don Mock 11:19
I love that it’s Flying Saucers with a double meaning of saucing, which is super fun.
Keri Hart 11:23
I know we had an argument about the apostrophe, wasn’t really.
Don Mock 11:29
Well, yes, yes. Inside ball, I mean, the client is literally on the podcast. I don’t know what I can really say what you know, I mean.
Keri Hart 11:37
All these opinions are my own and not of Wayne Sanderson Farms. Legal disclaimer.
Don Mock 11:42
Nice disclaimer.
Keri Hart 11:43
Yes, thank you.
Don Mock 11:43
That’s funny. That’s really funny. Hey, food is super fun to work on. I mean, we work on a lot of different things for a lot of different people. Rob and I have said that on multiple podcasts. I mean, we’re in higher-ed. We’re in commercial construction. We do a ton of biologics and medical stuff. Food and food packaging, especially working on Naked Truth, even some Platinum Harvest stuff we’ve done in the past, but really the commercial brand. I love, I still get a kick out of when you go to the grocery store, oh my God, and there’s something in someone’s cart that we designed and had a small, piece of, from a branding perspective and someone’s actually buying that product like, whoo.
Keri Hart 12:21
Yeah.
Don Mock 12:22
It totally worked and I love that packaging itself can still be very conceptual, and still be very advertorial in its command of putting headlines on packaging. If someone’s literally in a store, holding your product, give them a reason to purchase that product. Right?
Keri Hart 12:40
Right.
Don Mock 12:40
And I love bringing that advertorial sort of overlay to it, where on some of the Naked Truth packaging in the past, we’ve done little headlines and fun little quipits and things like that. I mean, it in amongst, obviously, all the claims of how great and organic, and no antibiotics and all that good stuff, right. Associated with the brand, but super fun. I just went on a tangent for like, 30 seconds there on all sorts of stuff.
Keri Hart 13:02
I love it. I love it.
Don Mock 13:04
Alright, what, uh, let me ask you this just for fun. What are some of the challenges being on the client side? And you’ve mentioned I worked in food, not in food. I’ve worked in this sort of events, sports marketing.
Keri Hart 13:18
Sure.
Don Mock 13:18
But, now we’re doing food service marketing. We’re also doing retail marketing, right? We’re dealing with giant suppliers, like Whole Foods, and Costcos and Walmarts and all sorts of stuff, right?
Keri Hart 13:29
Yeah.
Don Mock 13:30
What is one of your biggest challenges you think of working with an agency, or just in general? What’s one of the biggest challenges of your daily life? Workwise, not.
Keri Hart 13:43
Workwise.
Don Mock 13:43
Yeah, yeah.
Keri Hart 13:46
I think one of the biggest challenges, working with agencies in general, is really balancing your knowledge of your brand, versus what they know about your brand, versus what they think is going to be the best, versus. Sometimes I find myself in a position where I’m agreeing with what the agency has put in front of me.
Don Mock 14:10
Sure.
Keri Hart 14:10
And then now I’m needing to go in and sell it, right?
Don Mock 14:13
The internal sell.
Keri Hart 14:14
The internal sell.
Don Mock 14:15
Yeah, fascinating.
Keri Hart 14:17
And they might not always have that same view.
Don Mock 14:20
Yeah.
Keri Hart 14:21
So, kind of balancing that and then figuring out where we can land in a place where everybody says.
Don Mock 14:27
Yeah and for those that don’t know, there obviously is XYZ assignment, right? Marketing. I’m pointing at you right now. But, we have a need, something needs to occur, right?
Keri Hart 14:27
Yes.
Don Mock 14:29
You briefed us on that need? We come up with a bunch of different ideas, a bunch of different solves for that communication challenge, right?
Keri Hart 14:44
Mhm.
Don Mock 14:45
Or whatever that initiative is. Is is packaging? Is it an ad? Is it whatever, right. I come back to you with a bunch of different options, and then, there is, one thing we don’t talk about on our side of the fence a lot is that internal gauntlet.
Keri Hart 14:58
Sure.
Don Mock 14:58
Right? That things have to run through internally, to make sure that this is an approved concept, or even can we legally say that, you know? Is that making a claim? Is that not making a claim, right? We get off the phone. Man, we Just crushed that awesome, first round presentation. Rob and I have done previous podcasts on some of the best parts of our job and sort of what we enjoy the most. It’s almost universally that first round presentation, because it’s all the what ifs. It’s all the ideation. It’s all the different ideas that we come and present clients. You could do it this way. You could do it that way. You could you know, what about this?
Keri Hart 15:08
Yeah.
Don Mock 15:32
Oh, have you considered this thing over here? You know, that type of thing, right?
Keri Hart 15:37
Yeah.
Don Mock 15:38
And it’s a lot of those theater of the mind, and what it could be, right.
Keri Hart 15:43
Sure. Just think about our battle with the Wayne Sanderson logo.
Don Mock 15:48
Oh, yeah.
Keri Hart 15:48
In general.
Don Mock 15:49
Yeah.
Keri Hart 15:49
Not necessarily battle. A battle’s not the best word, but just the the journey, I guess, for that, from soup to nuts.
Don Mock 15:56
Yeah. I think not all projects are the same, right?
Keri Hart 15:58
Right.
Don Mock 15:58
And not all projects weigh the same. So, doing the ad campaign that we just did probably had less of a marathon to run internally. We had a couple hurdles to jump through.
Keri Hart 16:09
Mhm.
Don Mock 16:09
And we’re thinking of the same people, but we’re not going to name names. So you know, getting approvals, getting things out the door, all that kind of stuff, right? Versus a full scale corporate rebrand.
Keri Hart 16:19
Yeah.
Don Mock 16:19
We’re a company A has now merged with Company B and we’ve got, I don’t want to say emotions running high. But we’ve got a corporate leadership team. We’ve got 15 People in this conference room, we got 12 people.
Keri Hart 16:33
It’s high visibility.
Don Mock 16:33
Yeah, we got all these people on his on a zoom call over here, right. And we’re kind of down in the weeds on, and I mean this lovingly, but production value and knowing this needs to go on a truck. It also needs to go on a package. It needs to go on your business card. It needs to go on a billboard.
Keri Hart 16:51
Sure.
Don Mock 16:52
So, there is intricacy and nuance to corporate rebrand, right? Versus i’m in that corporate boardroom presenting to the executive leadership team. They’re not thinking about any of that stuff at all, right. It’s, is it gonna look awesome on my polo? And I don’t mean that in a negative way. I’m just thinking, not everybody’s coming at the project from the same angle, potentially, that we are coming at it, as you know?
Keri Hart 17:13
Sure, and I think that a lot of people that don’t do what we do on a daily basis, sometimes.
Don Mock 17:23
Yeah, they’re an operations or procurement.
Keri Hart 17:24
Yeah.
Don Mock 17:24
Or whatever the case may be.
Keri Hart 17:25
And I think sometimes they forget to take their own personal opinion out of it a little bit. And go, okay, from a corporation, how does this look, versus, oh, I just don’t like that color, personally.
Don Mock 17:36
It’s very interesting you mentioned that, because we have talked about that in the past in regards to the subjectivity, sometimes of design, right?
Keri Hart 17:43
Yeah.
Don Mock 17:43
If we were just to corner off design as its own part of this conversation. It’s I hate purple, and you love green, this and that. It’s like, well, those aren’t necessarily appropriate answers for the business question.
Keri Hart 17:58
Yes.
Don Mock 17:58
Or that might be the right solve considering the industry, right?
Keri Hart 18:01
Yeah.
Don Mock 18:02
And not all industries are the same. I mean, obviously, food is totally different than medical, as I mentioned earlier.
Keri Hart 18:06
Right. Well, then you have a product that doesn’t necessarily have one specific target audience.
Don Mock 18:12
Yeah.
Keri Hart 18:13
Right? You’re not going after just this one niche group, because most people eat chicken for the most part. I mean, vegans, they’ll tell you all about how they don’t eat chicken.
Don Mock 18:13
Yeah, chicken. Man, it’s in everything and we love chicken. I’m a huge fan of chicken. I actually do really love your wings. They’re delicious. Alright, well. I think we’ve maybe we babbled on. Anything else you want to share before I just hit you with a couple final questions? Any interesting tidbits or thoughts? No, is perfectly acceptable answer.
Keri Hart 18:40
No.
Don Mock 18:40
Okay. Alright, where? Because I’ve asked this to our other guests.
Keri Hart 18:41
Yeah.
Don Mock 18:41
Favorite brand? Do you have a favorite brand that you know and love?
Oh. The funny thing is, is that since I worked for Adidas actually, one of my favorite brands is Nike.
Really?
Keri Hart 18:59
Yes.
Don Mock 19:00
Whoa!
Keri Hart 19:01
I know.
Don Mock 19:01
Blasphemy.
Keri Hart 19:02
I know.
Don Mock 19:02
Okay. Why Nike over, and just to throw it out there?
Keri Hart 19:08
Yeah?
Don Mock 19:08
That’s two Nikes in a row from visitors that we’ve had.
Keri Hart 19:10
Is it?
Don Mock 19:11
Yeah, our last visitor loved Nike as well.
Keri Hart 19:12
I am wearing Adidas shoes today though.
Don Mock 19:14
I am wearing Adidas, as well.
Keri Hart 19:15
Ooh.
Don Mock 19:15
I only wear Adidas shoes.
Keri Hart 19:16
Yeah.
Don Mock 19:17
Nike shoes don’t fit my feet as well.
Keri Hart 19:18
They’re very narrow.
Don Mock 19:19
Yeah.
Keri Hart 19:19
They’re very narrow.
Don Mock 19:20
So, what is it about Nike?
Keri Hart 19:22
Okay, well, in all fairness, it’s probably not even Nike, but the Wieden and Kennedy that used to work on their campaigns.
Don Mock 19:28
Absolutely.
Keri Hart 19:29
They just.
Don Mock 19:29
Crushed it.
Keri Hart 19:30
Kill it. Every single time. I think they haven’t done a lot of new campaigns lately. Probably because of COVID, just because, like why are we, we’re just all trying to make it at that point.
Don Mock 19:41
But always, always high bar, always top of the advertising.
Keri Hart 19:45
I feel like they really came forward with the female power. And I you know, I gotta love that.
Don Mock 19:51
No, I’m totally down with that. Alright, Nike is a favorite brand. Alrght, where can the people find you and or do you want them to find you?
Keri Hart 19:58
Not me personally.
Don Mock 20:01
Alright, we’ll skip on that. Alright. Well, hey, thanks for coming on. Super appreciate it.
Keri Hart 20:05
Thanks for having me.
Don Mock 20:06
Alright, everybody can find us at mocktheagency.com or you can look us up on the socials @mocktheagency, and we will chat with you next time. Thanks everybody.
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