Don Mock 0:20
All right, Episode 97. We’re back. And we’re back with our friend Michael. Thanks for joining us, bud.
Michael Abernathy 0:25
Thanks for having me Don.
Don Mock 0:25
Yeah, we pulled you out of the out of your little SEO cave. You know.
There’s sunshine. You know, it’s exciting, and as I say, often on the pod, we’re gonna go grab some sushi. So I was like, Hey, let’s do a quick pod. This is fine. So last time we chatted, which was a few episodes back about some SEO, which was super fun. You had made a reference to web 3.0. And I thought that could be a really interesting topic to sort of sort of chat about sort of What does that mean, web 3.0? That implies that there was a 1.0, right, maybe there was a two. I don’t know.
Michael Abernathy 0:59
There was a two.
Don Mock 0:59
Yeah, exactly. Surprisingly we’re using the iPhone numbering system of just adding more numbers. Alright, web web 3.0. Michael jump in, like, give us the she’ll give us give us a spiel on one, two and three. I’d love to hear this and sort of wrap about this
Michael Abernathy 1:17
Interesting facts. I think the numbering system I could be wrong was just an assumption knowing encoders and developers they have version releases and they’re numbered like that, like the iPhone. I totally think it’s just like a version release.
Don Mock 1:28
Oh yeah for sure. For sure. Well, I’m you know, and even old school, Adobe, everything was 1.1 1.3. You know, I mean, I get it. I’m just making fun. Yeah, Apple tried to be different. And it was like, we’re Snow Leopard. You know, we’re Mojave, we’re, you know, and everyone was like, I don’t know What any of this means. Mavericks. What’s happening you know, and then finally, they’re just like, all right it’s iOS 16. I mean, like, even they gave up, you know What I mean? So yeah, it’s pretty funny. All right, web 3.0. Let’s, let’s chat. How would you define Web 1.0? I guess we’ll start there.
Michael Abernathy 2:08
Web 1.0, I think was simply connection. And just information, basic information, text. If you think about how, when the internet was first created, all it was was connect two computers. And then it was just to relay information back and forth via text via things like that. Yeah. 2.0 comes out. And 2.0 is really the consumption of video. And the consumption of digital media in that way.
Don Mock 2:32
Ok and we’re currently in 2.0 you would say right
Michael Abernathy 2:35
Yeah we’re currently in 2.0.
Don Mock 2:37
I would say 2.0 has a tremendous amount of runway. Like, if you think about the first videos that you watched on the internet, versus how quickly YouTube and everything loads now, and Michael sitting here laughing It’s pretty funny. You know, like, we’ve had a long run with 2.0. I feel like, right, the reason why Michael is laughing and cracking up and falling out of his chair is that if you actually think about it from a historical, contextual point of view, I think the reason why we transition from one to two, we have Tommy Lee and Pamela Anderson, right. That was kind of the seminal tipping point of where everyone stopped using the internet CompuServe chat rooms and went into video, it really is. I mean, it’s big business, it’s weird to think about that. But if you go back and look at the date wise, or even if you watch some old grade shows, like the sopranos and Meadow is doing her homework you know, like, like, we have America on that we kind of have pre Tommy Lee and Pam Anderson, you know, and post and, and, you know, the consumption of video really changed. Now, we don’t have to talk about What that means for us as a society of deviance, you know What I mean? But it is, it is an interesting, kind of push pin, you know, in the timeline of the internet
Michael Abernathy 3:49
It’s a cultural shift. And all this, it seems to be that everything’s tied around that point
Don Mock 3:54
Yeah I need to download that damn video. You know, why can’t I get this to work? You know, like, I know, so it’s funny. I mean, we got a good chuckle out of it, but it’s, it’s kind of it’s kind of historically accurate and right so, but anyways, I totally interrupted you so 2.0 You know, is where we are now.
Michael Abernathy 4:10
100% and you can really see 2.0 in social so socials heavy 2.0 It makes his media like even going back to MySpace Yeah, right. I can put my own media up there. I’m also connecting with people I’m chatting with people I’m messaging and then I’m having videos all this stuff and and then you know, Facebook today even Instagram like all this is heavy 2.0 and I think What you said too, is 2.0 has had a long runway. I don’t think we’re out of that runway yet but I do think we’re coming to the end of things.
Don Mock 4:38
OK don’t scare me Michael the end of things.
Michael Abernathy 4:41
Well, the end of 2.0.
Don Mock 4:42
Is this where the Sidewalk Ends?
Michael Abernathy 4:44
Oh my gosh, I had those. Those were great books.
Don Mock 4:48
Fantastic books anyway keep going
Michael Abernathy 4:50
They really were but um, but I do think it’s it we’re really about to come up on another major transition point. And I think part of that too, is even like So we talked about AI the last time I was on here and there was a video released where AI deep fake Joe Rogan’s face and voice and pushed a product. And Joe Rogan never endorsed the product or anything, but a lot of money was made and moved and as a result,
Don Mock 4:50
And it was made a move relatively quickly, from What I recall because he jumped on it relatively quick, and was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. This isn’t me.
Michael Abernathy 5:24
This was like less than a week, a couple days ago
Don Mock 5:26
But boom too late so.
Michael Abernathy 5:29
And What what’s happening now is you’re actually going to see identity problem. And this is where web 3.0 is going to change things. Because Web 3.0 I think is going to include identity. Like, how do I know whether it’s machine or person? How do I know whether who I’m talking to is real?
Don Mock 5:44
Well, Michael, we kind of already have identity problems right now. I mean, we’ve got so much fraud, it’s unbelievable.
Michael Abernathy 5:49
All the catfishing
Don Mock 5:51
Yeah, I mean, try to go add a add a line to your cell phone plan. I mean, it’s like What blood type do you have? What pin Give me this I mean, it’s unbelievable, right? And all of those are there because of people gaming the system.
Michael Abernathy 6:03
But if you think about how you use the internet, you’ve never previously question, am I actually talking to a person? And I think that’s the problem. That is a really, it’s a bigger problem. And so it’s actually forcing this issue of identity more.
Don Mock 6:16
Yeah. Well, we’ve I think a lot of people have used a little customer service chat bot you know, and I kind of liken those QR codes, like everyone, like when QR codes came and QR codes have been used for inventory forever, right forever. And then all of a sudden, we’re like, oh, wow, what’s this little scanner with your phone? And you’re like, Yeah, I’ll do it. And then you’re like, oh, immediate letdown. There’s nothing but I have to download a player and, or a QR reader, you know, and we went through this phase where like, especially from our perspective, we’re advertising using point of sale with QR code, right? And then it was just an immediate consumer, and then it kind of died. Then we build in QR code functionality into your phone, you know, you just open your Apple phone, you know, camera or whatever. And it’ll automatically work right. And it’s starting to sort of claw its way back. Right. It’s weird side note on QR codes, right. But I think, you know, we’ve all interact, I use that as the same thing, as we’ve all interacted with chatbots. and been like, wow, this totally sucks. I just wasted all this time. I wasn’t on hold. But like, Oh, my God, I just typed my guts out about this problem I have or about this customer service instance. And like, yeah, this was a big letdown. It turns out, I still do have to talk to a person. Right, right. You know, but yeah, you bring up a great point where it’s like, okay, wait a minute. Am I talking to a person or am I not talking to a person?
Michael Abernathy 7:30
Some of this stuff is so good you have no idea and that that is where I think the identity stuff is really going to be pushed more because you think about like your phone. Your phone is just straight internet And now all of a sudden, like, other than short of calling somebody you have no idea who you’re talking to
Don Mock 7:45
Yeah we kind of shouldn’t even call them phones anymore because we never use them for telephone calls
Michael Abernathy 7:48
No, they are computers.
Don Mock 7:49
Michael Abernathy 7:51
And then the next thing too, so the identity thing. And so What I this is What I think is going to happen, I could be totally wrong. It just kind of my prediction.
Don Mock 7:58
Well, we’re gonna look back on this 10 years from now and be like dude you crushed it. You know
Michael Abernathy 8:02
That’d be cool.
Don Mock 8:02
All right. Well, hit us. This is good stuff.
Michael Abernathy 8:03
I think blockchain is going to be used in web 3.0 to tie identity, I also think, and this goes back to What What 3.0 is the web 3.0 The premise behind all of it is to actually bring real commerce into the internet so it’s not ecommerce like What we think it is. Now there’s actually a transfer of physical real estate and property that can occur in the internet.
Don Mock 8:26
Michael Abernathy 8:27
And so a couple couple different ways. One, Mark Cuban and his company already producing blockchain technology that tracks you know, your your ownership of your house, your car, everything. So like, there’s no more mortgage papers. It’s all digital. It’s NFT. And then the other thing that’s happening is like what’s happening with Zuckerberg and face Book of faces
Don Mock 8:49
Yeah, the book of faces,
Michael Abernathy 8:51
To where they have the metaverse and people actually buying real digital property within that realm
Don Mock 8:56
Michael Abernathy 8:57
Digital space, but not like a webpage. It’s like I’m putting on this mask and goggles. And I’m now walking into this room that is owned by somebody else.
Don Mock 9:05
Yeah. I’m gonna hit quick pause. Yeah. Because I thought about something that always has baffled me and I, you know, the age old question of hey, man, if you had a time machine, What would you do? Or what’s old, great ideas that you wish you had been a part of? Or something like that? Buying physical space in the internet, I think is strange. And that’s maybe a topic for another another podcast or whatever. Like, is it real? Because couldn’t you just add more space? Like we add more data? But do you remember the million dollar webpage? Since we’re talking about Web 1.0 web 2.0, right? And that guy, I don’t remember the guy’s name but it was you could buy a pixel whatever the cost was for the pixel and I don’t know What the dimensions were of everything right? But it was once we fill up this block, right? We’re done and that guy’s gonna get a million dollars right and I remember the Today Show was talking about it like, all of a sudden they hit this PR bonanza. Now, a lot of casinos From What I recall ended up Buying a bunch of pixels to put in, you know, call to actions or whatever the case may be right. But the dude made a million dollars just selling pixels on his like AOL website and this is like 1990 money. This is like this is like real
million dollars Boom like Pre like inflation. crazy
Yeah that is one seminal moment of the Internet where I was like, Wow, this. God, I wish I came up with that idea. That is awesome. What a great What a great thing
Michael Abernathy 10:27
That’s NFT’s and blockchain.
Don Mock 10:28
I know. I know. It’s interesting
Michael Abernathy 10:30
And that’s the same property because yes, could they create more? Yes, but the problem is, is they are is going to be intentionally designed to be exclusive. And I think that’s where because that’s where the money is
Don Mock 10:40
So how would you explain for those that have heard of blockchain and oh, you know, we all know NFT’s and the apes and oh my god, I lost my digital wallet and somebody stole my this and NFT’s are failures and it’s, you know, it’s like, you know, investing in Bitcoin and you know, like there’s so much negative or whatever that but I do think potentially the best part of NFT’s is the blockchain technology now environmental concerns aside because that is a whole nother conversation about you know, the computing necessity right to create all the code isn’t necessarily good for Mother Earth, and we only have one Mother Earth thus far, right? But how would you explain What blockchain is I guess I’m kinda putting you on the spot.
Michael Abernathy 11:22
No, that’s totally cool. So without getting too deep into the nuts and bolts of everything, Blockchain is simply it is if you think of it like the law of gravity, once it’s in place, you can’t remove it, and it it takes effect to where it tracks everything of where that transaction has taken place. So Bitcoin every time bitcoin is transferred to another person or used to exchange, it is forever recorded written in stone unless the world blows up and all the computers die.
Don Mock 11:48
Yeah, I mean, it is a string of code that is attached to an asset is that is that a way of explaining it
Michael Abernathy 11:53
That’s a way of explaining it and the code is unchangeable The way it’s written so you can’t actually mess with data and that’s What makes blockchain very different.
Don Mock 12:03
Okay. And you can’t hack it?
Michael Abernathy 12:04
No, you can’t hack it. And that’s What makes it very different. The other thing, too, is, you know, talking about the NFTs, I see the NFTs and the whole explosion that’s currently happened with them just like the.com Boom, 90% of the stuff went away in the.com. Boom, yeah. And then the 10% that remained, like Google was phenomenal
Don Mock 12:25
Well a lot of ideas and premises, failed, but then returned, right. And Here’s What I mean by that, like, web van, you know, amazing idea that has now rebirth its way into a million different versions of, you know, DoorDash and Instacart. And all these different things, you know, even, you know, so it was, it’s not like I want I’m going to say, hey, Webb van was ahead of its time. Right. But it may be financially wasn’t the right time you know like it wasn’t it wasn’t financially viable. And that’s why it kind of crashed, if that makes sense. You know, but that idea did, you know, come back around again, you know, so there are a lot of interesting ideas from the 90s that yeah, that I agree with you 90% of all that stuff went away but the specificity of marketplaces by vertical, which was really interesting, right, that that business has never had before all that stuff totally survived. It didn’t survive in the you know, how it was birthed in the 90s. But it came back around again and was like, Okay, Here’s the textile marketplace. You know, but to your point, Google eBay, you know, there’s some anchor pillar. I mean, you mentioned MySpace, you know, Myspace went away, but that idea.
Michael Abernathy 13:35
I think MySpace is still around too.
Don Mock 13:36
Yeah, there was a Justin Timberlake bought in and became a music thing and something like that. But that idea, obviously still lives today, which is interesting.
Michael Abernathy 13:44
it does. And I think the same thing, like, even though I think the NFTs are going to be here to stay. And it’s gonna be based on like utilitarian use. Just really how a lot of them are going to be used
Don Mock 13:59
Well talk to me about identity because that is a concern. Right. And that’s, I think, where you think about your digital is it correct to say, like your digital fingerprint.
Michael Abernathy 14:08
100%. No, that’d be a great way of saying it. Because What it is, is, as you log in to Web 2.0 whatever that is going to look like, now you’re attached to the blockchain, saying this is who I am and then you’re able to like be verified as a person and not a robot and all these other things.
Don Mock 14:25
Yeah and that will theoretically help eliminate identity theft.
Michael Abernathy 14:30
I think so a lot of it because it goes back to the blockchain being hacked to different things like that versus like, you know, just having security breaches just across the board, because now I’m trading information with all the companies but all the companies are using this universal system that can’t be broken, because if you’re hacked, and it gets taken, well, that’s recorded in the history. So now we’ll go and just take it from whoever took it.
Don Mock 14:50
Yeah, that’s interesting. Well, that kind of blows my mind. I think what’s interesting that no one really talks about is that humans are the biggest break In the security, you know What I mean? Like, so you’re talking about, hey, customer service, am I talking to a human am I talking to a robot what’s happening here, right? But it’s universally the human interaction that ends up coughing up the goods and creating the problem and piracy in the first place. So I think, potentially web 3.0 If you’re making predictions, you know, my sort of off the cuff prediction might be that we might actually interact with humans from a customer service perspective, less and less, right?
Michael Abernathy 15:30
I think so.
Don Mock 15:31
Yeah. Because there was something like, you know, calling your bank and saying, Hey, fraud, this or that are bad checks or whatever, that you know, like, there’s been several reports on, you know, the news and What, like, you know, 60 minutes, and whatever and you know of like Oh, I’m a hacker, and Here’s how I hack into your bank account, right? And it’s like, oh, I got a screaming baby in one arm. I got this, I got my song and dance I got you know, and you you appeal to people’s emotions and soft side or whatever, then they’re like, Okay, you know, and you’ve got enough to be dangerous, you know a mother’s maiden name, you know, a little bit here and there, you know, and you break down, you know, the barriers through, you know, humans being the entry points, right? So if we blockchain almost humans out of the conversation, right, right, then it’s just hey, the number is the number. The serialization is the serialization. Right. So
Michael Abernathy 16:24
No, I think so and it will remove a lot of that. Big time.
Don Mock 16:29
Yeah, it’s weird to think about, man, super weird.
Michael Abernathy 16:31
It’s crazy. But I mean, I even think, I think the way that things are going even with the internet, like, I’m gonna go to Elon and Starlink. And What he’s doing is, even though he’s providing internet for everybody, I think, and even whether he said it or not, is actually build like a neural not a neural network, but a massive network for all the self driving cars to run off of. So nobody dies anymore from car wrecks.
Don Mock 16:50
Yeah, that could be interesting.
Michael Abernathy 16:51
And I think it’s so interesting, because like, AI is really changing how business is done. But life moves so slowly because, everybody’s gonna adapt it and adapt to it.
Don Mock 17:01
Yeah well change is hard for humans, right. And the word change implies a radical departure. What I mean by that is, like, change implies I was going left, and now I’m going right? Like, like, like, like the word, just the word change almost means 180 degrees. Right? And so trying to get somebody that’s been doing something or was taught a certain way, you know, their whole life, and then Oh, you got to change that, like, in your mind, you immediately go, Oh, God. But it’s really more a shift. It’s really more an incremental, you know, if you’re at 12 o’clock position, it’s really, you just got to go to one o’clock, you know What I mean? Or 11 o’clock, you don’t have to go all the way to six, you know, but I do agree with you that human behavior. And that’s something we deal with every day here, right is the power of persuasion, and convincing someone potentially that there’s either a better way to do something, or they need to purchase something they hadn’t really considered yet. You know, like, I mean, that’s at the heart. That’s kind of What advertising is, right. It’s the power of persuasion, right. But you bring up an excellent point that technology outpaces our human ability to change, shift, modify, you know, exponentially
Michael Abernathy 18:13
It really does, and so I don’t know how soon web 3.0 will come along, but there’s gonna be people adverse to it.
Don Mock 18:18
Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. For sure. Well, it’s gonna be Hey, the deed of my like, my house, my physical house now is technically a digital sort of scenario. Like how in the world does that work? Right? And think about how commerce is gonna work.
Michael Abernathy 18:33
It’s gonna work. It’s gonna be crazy. I mean, but Here’s, Here’s how things are going like, the Fed is currently working on releasing their own version of Bitcoin. Yeah, yeah. And then you have other other coins like XRP. I’m not I’m not pushing anything. This is just me reading to learn about all this stuff. You have other coins that are going to be that are now incremental, and becoming vitally important for just transfer of cash money from bank to bank. So it’s just crazy interesting.
Don Mock 18:58
Yeah. Well, and how it upsets businesses, especially politically, right. I mean, you’ve got the Fed that you mentioned the Fed that they had been working on their own version of TurboTax. Right, or like filing taxes for you know, you don’t have to go to h&r block, you know, and well, like, these are billion dollar companies. And then the government is basically saying, oh, okay, hey, just, we need the money faster, when you know, just do it for free, instead of paying someone else to do you know, that type of thing. Right. And so, you know, web 3.0 How will that upset existing commerce? You know, it’ll be interesting to see how that works. Right? So remember the old movie Demolition Man.
Michael Abernathy 19:34
I sure do. Where Taco Bell was a five star restaurant.
Don Mock 19:36
Yes. It’s all about the three shells. And I love I love that the three shells is a great joke for those in the know, and they never really explain What the three shells are. Right. But you know, yeah, I mean, one of the funniest parts about that is obviously the self driving autonomous cars. And you know, there hasn’t been a crime in Los Angeles, you know, for whatever, 20 years or 30 years or however long it’s been right, and no one drives their own car anymore, you know? Which, you know, I mean, we’ve got half the population and probably more than half the population that still is of the opinion, I will never buy an electric car will never buy an electric car, you know, I need the sound I need this. I need to have that, you know, and it’s like, Huh, that’s interesting, you know, but the future is not in burning dinosaur bones. We all know that. I mean, it’s just a matter of when are we going to when are we going to shift? So the interesting Toyota announcement about their battery technology? I don’t know if you caught that.
Michael Abernathy 19:44
No, I haven’t heard that.
Don Mock 19:50
Yeah, Toyota I’m going Totally off topic. Toyota announced, I want to say a few weeks back, or maybe a month or so by now. Or God knows when you’re listening to this, who knows how long that was, but that they have improved lithium ion technology to where they can build a car, similar, you know, sedan or whatever, call it a Tesla or some same amount of batteries. But it can go over twice as far and go over 700 miles. And you can rapid charge 90% in 10 minutes. So that, to me, is the gigantic barrier for road trips. And for that, that perception of like, I can’t take my car anywhere, right? If you can drive 700 miles straight, right, you’re probably going to welcome a 10 minute break to get 90% of your battery juice. You know what I mean
Michael Abernathy 21:21
You charge while you’re eating dinner or lunch.
Don Mock 21:22
Yeah, it’s like, I’m going to Buc-ee’s you know, wherever, right? And like, I’m going to my five star Taco Bell and I’m gonna charge and you know, 10 minutes is nothing, right. So it’s like, you know, again, the crack research team, I couldn’t tell you, I think it was like 27 or 28. I think they wanted to have something out. So I mean, it’s still we’re still a few years away, right? But if that comes to pass that will radically revolutionize combustion engines and things like that, right?
Michael Abernathy 21:22
It totally will.
Don Mock 21:24
Especially for logistics. I mean, we talk about all this I’m totally interrupting, I’m sorry. Like we talked about, we think about it from us, like me driving to work or oh, I have to drive to Florida for vacation or whatever, you know, but it’s not that it’s really more the logistics. I mean, think about gigantic semis and just the moving of commerce around you know, every Amazon vehicle, every UPS truck, every FedEx truck, every you know, if all of that stuff is electric. That’ll be really and quasi autonomous. It’ll be fascinating.
Michael Abernathy 22:18
It’ll be super fascinating. It’s gonna be really interesting to watch. I mean, we’re like, we thought the phone was big with iPhone, the shift everything. There’s so many more shifts coming much more faster. There’s actually hydrogen out there, too. What do you call it Technology Thank you. I couldn’t remember the word. To where it converts hydrogen into electricity and then it just exposes water. Yeah,
Don Mock 22:42
well, the vapor Yeah well, they had cars like that. 20 years ago,
Michael Abernathy 22:45
I was gonna say Honda did something like that in 2000. And it’s just there’s no appetite for that. But that’s gonna be there, too. Even if the battery doesn’t make sense. That’s coming too.
Don Mock 22:55
it’s like web van. Like the idea. Is there the behavior? It’s just, it’s too early. It’s just too early. Yeah, we’re not ready. You know, the technology has outpaced human behavior. So any other final sort of closing thoughts on web 3.0? I mean, it’s interesting to think about, you know, your digital fingerprints, right, improving we’re starting to live in sci fi movies, right. And I think about was it Gattaca? that Jude Law thing where like you are, who you are, and you’re kind of pre slotted, for whatever your job is, you know, and we’ve got Tom Cruise and minority report. I mean, all these strange things are potentially going to happen.
Michael Abernathy 23:28
It’s coming. Because you think about AI being predictive models but anyways, yeah, I have a few things just from the business side. I think change is really here, it’s already on the doorstep. It’s not like it’s it’s not like it’s in the house yet. But it’s not coming up the driveway. It’s in your front door,
Don Mock 23:46
It’s on the doorbell camera. It’s knocking who is that guy up there? I don’t recognize that guy.
Michael Abernathy 23:51
Yeah, his name tags has changed.
Don Mock 23:52
Its web 3.0 he’s knocking.
Michael Abernathy 23:55
And I think the biggest thing is to be fluid. And if anybody’s not fluid, whether it’s in business, or even personally to really change this. I’m not saying adapt, but learn. It will break business across the board. I mean, we saw that with social a lot of people who didn’t have brand presence on social and things like that, that the the missed opportunity cost was massive for a lot of people.
Don Mock 24:15
For sure. So that’s interesting. Way to end on a high note, Michael I appreciate that.
Michael Abernathy 24:21
Don Mock 24:22
All right. This has been great. I love this. It’s interesting because again, AI is kind of permeated into a lot of our conversations. You mentioned web 3.0. You know, thanks for coming back. And talking about these things. But where can everybody find us, Michael?
Michael Abernathy 24:35
They can find us at www.mocktheagency.com. And they can also find us on all the socials to quote Rob @mocktheagency
Don Mock 24:45
All right. Thanks, everybody. We’ll chat with you next time.